Progressive Steps in Hand Development

denisri

Silver Member
Hi Fellow Drummers
This is my 1st posting of a new tread....I would like to hear from experience fellow drummers what they feel are the progressive steps in hand development including what one may consider a practical max speed(BPM) for a working drummer(ie; singles 16ths and 32nds say quarter note equals 160BPM. TX Denis
 

Ian Ballard

Silver Member
Hi Fellow Drummers
This is my 1st posting of a new tread....I would like to hear from experience fellow drummers what they feel are the progressive steps in hand development including what one may consider a practical max speed(BPM) for a working drummer(ie; singles 16ths and 32nds say quarter note equals 160BPM. TX Denis
Metric modulation. Best way to develop anything, really.
 

sciomako

Silver Member
Errr... I think you guys are answering the wrong question. The OP was asking what was a practical max bpm (singles) a working drummer needed to achieve.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Errr... I think you guys are answering the wrong question. The OP was asking what was a practical max bpm (singles) a working drummer needed to achieve.

On the video you would see that he does the exercise at 185. It certainly matters what you are playing.
 

denisri

Silver Member
All very good info..Thank You...It has help confirm the drills I have used for the last 40 years and have mastered it. But Sicomako is correct these comments are not answering my questions.
I'll rephrase....
1. Has anyone develop a program(steps) for the hand development?
2. What would be a reasonable goal to obtain(BPM) for singles and doubles?
tx Denis
 

Ian Ballard

Silver Member
Errr... I think you guys are answering the wrong question. The OP was asking what was a practical max bpm (singles) a working drummer needed to achieve.
Depends on your perspective. If you start at quarter note 60bpm, by the time you reach... oh, 128th notes or 13's or whatever, using a "modulating meter" approach, you are flying. I don't teach "bpm's", so the answer comes from a differing perspective.

4 bars of quarters...
"... of quarter triplets...
"... of 1/8th notes...
"... 1/8th trips...
" ...1/16ths...
"...5's...
"...16th trips...
"...7's...
"...32nds...
"...9's...
"...10's...
"...11's...
"...12's...
"...13's.... and on and on.

I just don't see the real advantage to using "bpm's" as a method to get faster. Besides, using the modulation method, you'll be able to do really creative modulated rhythms, in addtion to achieving good "speed".
 

Ian Ballard

Silver Member
All very good info..Thank You...It has help confirm the drills I have used for the last 40 years and have mastered it. But Sicomako is correct these comments are not answering my questions.
I'll rephrase....
1. Has anyone develop a program(steps) for the hand development?

The "steps" go from quarter notes to 13's. Try doing double-strokes in 5's. It's hard. Try it in 11's. Whoa!

2. What would be a reasonable goal to obtain(BPM) for singles and doubles?
tx Denis
Would this be the bpm's playing 16th notes? This is generally the rate. Let's say you can play 1200 strokes a minute... that's "gettin' it"... used to be a world record, even. That would be 20 strokes a second. If you are playing at a 60 bpm quarter note, that would be 20 strokes between each click...10 strokes between 120bpm's... 5 strokes between 240 bpm's... etc. Basically, if you play 16ths at 240, you are damn fast.

You can think of it that way, too.
 

sciomako

Silver Member
I just don't see the real advantage to using "bpm's" as a method to get faster. Besides, using the modulation method, you'll be able to do really creative modulated rhythms, in addtion to achieving good "speed".
Hi Ian,

See if I understand it correctly. Are you suggesting to use modulation as an approach to practice for speed?
 

FunkyJazzer

Senior Member
1. Has anyone develop a program(steps) for the hand development?
1. Stick Control - George L. Stone
2. The Weaker Side - Dom Famularo
3. Master Studies - Joe Morello
4. Modern Rudimental Swing Solos For The Advanced Drummer - Charley Wilcoxon
5. The All-American Drummer - Charley Wilcoxon

I just work through those about 3-4 hours a day.

Lloyd.
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
1. Stick Control - George L. Stone
2. The Weaker Side - Dom Famularo
3. Master Studies - Joe Morello
4. Modern Rudimental Swing Solos For The Advanced Drummer - Charley Wilcoxon
5. The All-American Drummer - Charley Wilcoxon

I just work through those about 3-4 hours a day.

Lloyd.
Oh, those guys. :)

In the context of the question, it is kind of funny that this would be the answer.

3-4 hours is a bit much. Nice to have the time. I work the Tommy Igoe warm-up into some of this stuff. You could work Pat Petrillo's exercises into it as well. On the DVD, Standing on the Shoulders of Giants, Steve Smith and John Riley talk about how much Philly Jo Jones liked the Wilcoxon books. I do a little Wilcoxon everyday. Just love it; it is great for the hands.
 

FunkyJazzer

Senior Member
Oh, those guys. :)

In the context of the question, it is kind of funny that this would be the answer.

3-4 hours is a bit much. Nice to have the time. I work the Tommy Igoe warm-up into some of this stuff. You could work Pat Petrillo's exercises into it as well. On the DVD, Standing on the Shoulders of Giants, Steve Smith and John Riley talk about how much Philly Jo Jones liked the Wilcoxon books. I do a little Wilcoxon everyday. Just love it; it is great for the hands.

Well he asked for people's routines, and I gave him mine :)
I've been looking into Hands, Grooves and Fills. But I've got so much to do already I don't want to add to my workload. It looks great though.
How can it be a bit much? Time on technique is never wasted (unless you're doing it wrong). 3-4 hours might seem a bit much if you don't do as much or more MUSICAL work, but I do. I have a basically 50/50 balance with technique work and drum kit work. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off for a jam at the jazz club! :D
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
How can it be a bit much? Time on technique is never wasted (unless you're doing it wrong). 3-4 hours might seem a bit much if you don't do as much or more MUSICAL work, but I do. I have a basically 50/50 balance with technique work and drum kit work. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off for a jam at the jazz club! :D
It's a great routine. The standards. Stone, Morello, Wilcoxon. Morello told me that he thought Wilcoxon was the best teacher around at the time, and this was a guy who knew everybody: Buddy, Gene, and studied with Stone and Gladstone.

I think one can spend too much time on hand technique; and down the road that may take its toll on you. That's my own personal opinion, ahh paranoia. :)

I have known people to get into trouble with their hands; now each drummer has to decide how much is worth for him or her self. If you have the time and desire to spend eight hours a day on the kit, go for it. The unfortunate thing about drumming is that you can quickly become too "well-developed" for many of the paying gigs that are out there.
 

denisri

Silver Member
Hi Everyone
Thanks you for your input...it help confirm the 1/2 hour practice routine/warmup I have developed over the past 40 years....a mixture of Stone,Morello,Chaffee and wrap up with work on one of Wilcoxon solos......then to the set or a gig.
Still did not get any input on steps in hand development...??? Perhaps none exist!
Pat Petrillo, thank for your input...I do one new book/DVD a year...I have been eyeballing your DVD/book Hands/Groves and Fills ..and plan on picking up your DVD for FY 2009 study.
In my travels thru NY/NJ are you available for a one time 2 to 3 hour session.tx Denis
 

Pat Petrillo

Silver Member
Denis

No problem..Thanks, and hope you pick up "HGF", as many have, and I am sure you'll dig the diversity..

Please PM me, and we can definitely do some lessons in my studio in New Brunswick, NJ..Look forward to hearing from you...AND, if anyone else who is in New Jersey/NY area, my new studio in Central Jersey open for lessons, and it is the place for my on line video shoots as well...

C YA!
 

Thetruth

Junior Member
Hey Denis you should check out JoJo Mayer DvD he explains and demonstrstes very well
and if you come to New Jersey or NYC,go see The Master Joe Morello with him there is no better
 

Thetruth

Junior Member
Hey Denis you should check out JoJo Mayer DvD he explains and demonstrates very well
and if you come to New Jersey or NYC,go see The Master Joe Morello with him there is no better
 
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