Prices Getting Rediculously In Canada

Roadydad

Senior Member
The Canadian dollar is weak compared to the U.S. dollar. Distributers importing, say for fun, a $1 cymbal, will have to pay almost $1.25 Cdn. just for the exchange rate.
Form what I've heard the industry is not strong right now, the economy is not great up here, some distributers and stores, are resisting raising prices. But eventually, the exchange eats up their profit margin, and the prices go up.
It's going to be a tough Christmas for some.

I'm am NOT an economist, so don't slag me please. I'm going by what I've heard from a store owner.
 

incrementalg

Gold Member
With prices like that buying bulk online or coop with other drummers might work out.
You know, that's not a bad idea. I'm a member of a couple of car forums and we've arranged a handful of group buys with retailers and manufacturers.

We would negotiate a price dependent on the number of buyers. For example, a shop might give us $50 off an item if we bring 10 buyers and $100 off if we bring 25.

I could use a group buy on a Supraphonic.
 

pgm554

Platinum Member
The Canadian dollar is weak compared to the U.S. dollar. Distributers importing, say for fun, a $1 cymbal, will have to pay almost $1.25 Cdn. just for the exchange rate.
Form what I've heard the industry is not strong right now, the economy is not great up here, some distributers and stores, are resisting raising prices. But eventually, the exchange eats up their profit margin, and the prices go up.
It's going to be a tough Christmas for some.

I'm am NOT an economist, so don't slag me please. I'm going by what I've heard from a store owner.
Yeah,I've heard it's cheaper to buy a Sabian in the US than in Canada.
 

STXBob

Gold Member
I wasn't slagging Ludwig. It more reminds me of lobster fisherman back home. They struggle to get a fair price for their catch, yet sometimes lobsters are 14 bucks a pound in the supermarket. The middle men make the killing. In the case of my cell phone anecdote, the manufacturer is making less than 10 bucks per phone.
I'm sorry I misunderstood your intent, but I think my interpretation of what you actually wrote was correct. When you wrote...

To my mind charging $700-800+ for a spun shelled Ludwig drum is nothing short of a gouge plain and simple. Once you are tooled up to produce those shells (and Ludwig has been tooled up for quite a while now) how much does it cost them to produce a snare drum? I'd be surprised if the cost is $100. Probably less than that. I mean c'mon- it's a metal tube with a few simple components strapped on it. Is anyone really going to argue that it is intrinsically worth more than, i don't know, say $250 maybe? It's a very simple product by modern production standards.
...you weren't slagging the middleman. You were slagging Ludwig. If you meant the middleman/retailer, you would have used different language.

Now I understand what you were actually talking about, we can discuss that.

Price levels are, as you note, not merely driven by manufacturing costs but also wholesale and retail costs. Every level has to make enough money on the transaction to remain solvent, so the street price reflects that.

The street price also reflects demand and a variety of other factors. A Supraphonic is "worth" what it's worth because of demand (and costs of USA manufacture), where a Mapex "Daisy Cutter" snare is "worth" less than half on the street because it's less desirable (and it's made in China).
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
For volume products, the price comprises of making the item, then marketing the visuals & features in a way that gets your attention, plus getting known drummers to endorse it to enhance legitimacy (engaging in back line cost provision, tour support, etc), then making sure it's available in your country through distribution (with all relevant shipping, duties, rep commissions, distributor margin), then available in your locality (another margin). If you buy a $100 item, it likely cost well under $25 to make it, otherwise the system falls to pieces.

Manufacturers do have an influence on street price. It's not all down to the distributer & retailer. Some countries are greater profit centres than others. Consumption volume is key here, & that's why it's cheaper to buy an Australian made product in the USA than it is in Australia. Manufacturers who go the mass distribution route make next to nothing in some markets, so other markets need to make up for that. It's a market presence thing in low margin / highly competitive markets. A certain critical mass is necessary to stay visible & viable.
 

moxman

Silver Member
Depends where you buy.. Long and Maquade has some noname sticks for $3 that are as good if not better than Vic Firths 5AN!
They go fast when in stock.
 
G

Ghostnote

Guest
I'm sorry I misunderstood your intent, but I think my interpretation of what you actually wrote was correct. When you wrote...



...you weren't slagging the middleman. You were slagging Ludwig. If you meant the middleman/retailer, you would have used different language.

Now I understand what you were actually talking about, we can discuss that.

Price levels are, as you note, not merely driven by manufacturing costs but also wholesale and retail costs. Every level has to make enough money on the transaction to remain solvent, so the street price reflects that.

The street price also reflects demand and a variety of other factors. A Supraphonic is "worth" what it's worth because of demand (and costs of USA manufacture), where a Mapex "Daisy Cutter" snare is "worth" less than half on the street because it's less desirable (and it's made in China).
I surmised that it didn't cost Ludwig that much to produce a drum. In no way did I state that the high price for said item was stipulated by Ludwig. Any interpretation along those lines is a presumption on your part.

Regardless of the reasons, the number of middle men getting their piece, marketing, etc, I just have a hard time swallowing that something as simple to produce as a Supraphonic is "worth" $7-800+. Those are boutique prices for something that is mass produced. Hell, you can find decent guitars for that price and they are much more involved to make.

If the price is that high in order for the whole system to work then there is something wrong with the system.
 

davezedlee

Senior Member
you just have to look around a little harder

got a used LM402 for $5

got a used 18" Sabian Medium Thin AA for $5

in Canadian Dollars, at the same garage sale 2 weeks ago

will that ever happen again?

probably not, but they're out there
 

Groov-E

Silver Member
For volume products, the price comprises of making the item, then marketing the visuals & features in a way that gets your attention, plus getting known drummers to endorse it to enhance legitimacy (engaging in back line cost provision, tour support, etc), then making sure it's available in your country through distribution (with all relevant shipping, duties, rep commissions, distributor margin), then available in your locality (another margin). If you buy a $100 item, it likely cost well under $25 to make it, otherwise the system falls to pieces.

Manufacturers do have an influence on street price. It's not all down to the distributer & retailer. Some countries are greater profit centres than others. Consumption volume is key here, & that's why it's cheaper to buy an Australian made product in the USA than it is in Australia. Manufacturers who go the mass distribution route make next to nothing in some markets, so other markets need to make up for that. It's a market presence thing in low margin / highly competitive markets. A certain critical mass is necessary to stay visible & viable.
Very clear and informative. And as always tainted with experienced wisdom.
Thank you Andy
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
I agree that Australia is a low volume market, and there are huge distances between the few major cities. But if an individual can buy an instrument from overseas cheaper than a shop can get it wholesale from the distributor, then something is wrong.

Of course, its also a vicious circle - customers buy from overseas, which reduces local sales. The small local demand drives up prices, which causes customers to look elsewhere and buy from overseas, etc.

In the meantime, my local shop has had that Supra 402 priced at $950 for three years now. It's still there. An excellent example of 'low volume' sales.
 

Souljacker

Silver Member
One more thing.
Brady snares cost more here! ~ $1500
Its cheaper to buy one from a US dealer than anywhere in Australia.
Even though they're made in Western Australia.

Similar to the Canadian situation with Sabian, etc.
How fair do you see the price of Sleishman drums given they're an Aussie company?

I've heard some on youtube. They sound very good. One of the endorsers is an excellent Australian player who puts lessons up on his channel.
 

Morrisman

Platinum Member
How fair do you see the price of Sleishman drums given they're an Aussie company?

I've heard some on youtube. They sound very good. One of the endorsers is an excellent Australian player who puts lessons up on his channel.

I must admit I've never seen a Sleishman drum in any music shop in Adelaide, so I've no idea what the local pricing is, or how it compares internationally. From the clips I've seen they're impressive, innovative drums, but I've seen or heard one 'in the flesh'.
 

Bruce M. Thomson

Gold Member
The Canadian dollar fell below 76 cents to the U.S. dollar so bad for imports but great for exports; inflation is crazy here right now as well.
$15 seems rather high they list for $11.50 and generally I get them for $10.
Depends on what part of Canada you are in as well.
 

TMe

Senior Member
Canadians just don't "get" retail. Period. Almost every good retailer I deal with has foreign management.

Canadians get a lot of things right, but retail isn't one of them.

I really hate it when an American company decides to set up a Canadian subsidiary, and then I can't deal with the American parent company any more. A product I've been buying for decades is suddenly unavailable. The Canadian retailer tells me "They don't make those anymore" even though I can go online and see them listed by American retailers. And the American retailers can't ship to Canada because the Canadian subsidiary has exclusive rights to the Canadian market.

In situations like that I go to eBay. Which is where I buy almost all spare parts, BTW, because you can't get replacement parts for anything from Canadian sources.
 

Winegums

Silver Member
Canadians just don't "get" retail. Period. Almost every good retailer I deal with has foreign management.

Canadians get a lot of things right, but retail isn't one of them.

I really hate it when an American company decides to set up a Canadian subsidiary, and then I can't deal with the American parent company any more. A product I've been buying for decades is suddenly unavailable. The Canadian retailer tells me "They don't make those anymore" even though I can go online and see them listed by American retailers. And the American retailers can't ship to Canada because the Canadian subsidiary has exclusive rights to the Canadian market.

In situations like that I go to eBay. Which is where I buy almost all spare parts, BTW, because you can't get replacement parts for anything from Canadian sources.
This!

This is my biggest headache. Everytime I'd like to purchase a product from the states they don't ship to Canada. Everytime I find the Canadian site they have limited choices and the price is marked up beyond the difference in exchange rate. So I'm forced to pay 25-50% more than American pricing.
 

radman

Senior Member
Canadians just don't "get" retail. Period. Almost every good retailer I deal with has foreign management.

Canadians get a lot of things right, but retail isn't one of them.

I really hate it when an American company decides to set up a Canadian subsidiary, and then I can't deal with the American parent company any more. A product I've been buying for decades is suddenly unavailable. The Canadian retailer tells me "They don't make those anymore" even though I can go online and see them listed by American retailers. And the American retailers can't ship to Canada because the Canadian subsidiary has exclusive rights to the Canadian market.

In situations like that I go to eBay. Which is where I buy almost all spare parts, BTW, because you can't get replacement parts for anything from Canadian sources.

Oh yeah, been there, done that.

We never get a "hometown discount" on Canadian products (Sabian, BRP, etc.).

A story close to Ghostnote's home .... A few years ago I was in Florida ($CDN was roughly on par with $USD). I snagged a dozen Moosehead for $10 ... which was roughly half price from NB price. So these nice cold ones trucked it down to the opposite end of the continent and were half the price. LOL .... go figure. That said, I didn't complain at the time.....

My apologies to the Aussies for this thread and my humble contribution to it. You guys do seem to get whacked on instrument pricing. That's the price you pay for no winter. But what about those Scandinavians....?

toodles,
radman
 

TMe

Senior Member
So I'm forced to pay 25-50% more than American pricing.
I'm not even complaining about the markup. There are valid reasons for some of that. What I can't stand is that Canadian retailers spend vast amounts of money on some of the best marketing in the world, but then have no inventory to sell. The selection is pitiful. I buy stuff online from the States only after making a real effort to find a Canadian source - and I buy a lot of stuff from the States.

I snagged a dozen Moosehead for $10...
That might be a different issue. In Canada, most of the money you pay for beer is taxes. If Florida has much lower taxes on beer, it makes sense Moose Juice would be less expensive there.
 

Bruce M. Thomson

Gold Member
You are right about selection, having said than there are smaller specialty stores around but they don't have a lot of advertising so unless someone tells you..............
 
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