Practice vs talent

Neither helps all that much, what you need are rich and highly motivated parents with expensive well-connected coaches.

The problem especially in the entertainment industry is that "work" itself is looked down upon whether or not it yields a pleasant result, and "talent" is frowned upon almost as much. Yep, that is the case, most popular people in any domain don't know how good they are.
 
Caz said:
There are a lot of experienced drummers and teachers here... How important do you think talent vs hard work/practice is to make a good drummer great?
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If you don't have any talent in a certain area, it doesn't matter how much you practice; you just aren't going to get better.

However, even if someone is naturally talented, they still need to practice and learn.
 
I think they're both important, although I think in my case my development arc went something like this: had natural talent which was nurtured and tolerated, and then I went to a teacher to begin study, but he made it so much fun, I didn't notice I was practicing alot. Then I joined drum corps to really get my hands together, and played in school and into college. Then as I got older, I stopped studying and concentrated on how better to groove and play with bands. TBH - alot of people can jettison about 80% of their chops and probably get nice steady work as a drummer. That's what it feels like I've done from my 30s to now: buried my chops so I can work on expression and feel.
 
There is also luck. I taught myself to program and build computers in 7th grade, got a job building computers, networks and programming web pages in high school. Went aced the Math section of the ACT so I could go to school get a Masters in CS, but never got my foot in the door at a dot.com. Just when it looked like I would be spending my days in an open office the size of my kitchen with 12 people who can't string together a coherent conversation in English or Bengalese, about the weather. Just sitting in study hall style next to printers, working 60+ hour weeks. The pandemic hit, and now I can work from home and don't give a rat's tail.

You could get that lucky also.
 
I had that beginner talent that surprised people for my limited experience level. Once I got to the level of regular bar gigs it was normal quality. Not stand out, except compared to my bandmates.

I see people who've been going to jams for years and never progress much. I asked a drummer about his practice regiment. He doesn't. He's playing at every jam he goes to. But only wants people to come over and do a whole band practice. No personal practice. He's not very good. I've tried talking to him and it's not easy. Can't imagine who he could get to come over to jam. Can't talk and won't practice.
 
Ever seen the YouTube guy on a subway drawing people sitting across from him with some in near tears at his drawing?...i can't draw a decent STICKMAN years later. Talents in there SOMEWHERE 😃.
 
SmoothOperator said:
The problem especially in the entertainment industry is that "work" itself is looked down upon whether or not it yields a pleasant result, and "talent" is frowned upon almost as much. Yep, that is the case, most popular people in any domain don't know how good they are.
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What? Never comes across work being looked down on in 40+ years of professional entertainment.
I have a problem with 'talent'. 1) No one can exactly quantify it and 2) the word acts as a kind of get out clause and dismissal - "I never made it because I wasn't talented". No, you never made it for perhaps a multitude of other reasons.
"Talent" when used by onlookers, fans, members of the public discounts ALL the hours the artist put in to improving themselves. Their incredible skill is discounted by claiming they are just "talented".
Hard work on the other hand is 1) expected in entertainment and 2) routinely and rightly celebrated.
 
The video is good, but 'stupid' is in the same category as 'talent' for me.
People who are bad at something are not necessarily 'stupid'. I don't think there are a lot of stupid peopler, like mentally sub-normal. there are plenty of people with bad education (often no fault of their own), plenty of people who are over confident (probably because of some other issue in their background).
I agree with the premise, but I don't claim anyone with a different opinion to me, or different attitude to creativity or skill, is stupid, while I am not 'stupid'. We are all a product of our lived experiences, from birth to now.
 
Philaiy9 said:
It depends on the person. People start at different places but those differences can easily even out over time.

I always get a little annoyed by people saying "you're so talented" to musicians. It's meant to be a compliment but in my mind it ignores the hundreds/thousands of practice hours they've probably logged to get there, regardless of what their natural ability was.
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You are in the same camp with "El Estepario Siberiano" He also gets upset when people tell him he is very talented..



To me non musicians pay you a compliment when they mention how talented you are because they don't know or care to know what it takes to get there. Anyone who gets upset about that is literally just looking for something to be upset about. (maybe a millennial or Gen Z if not, even more shame on you).

I believe Talent is something that can be developed through practice (so in that sense, I agree with EES above) but I also know that there are some people that can immediately play an instrument without any prior knowledge. ( I am one of those). That said my natural talent only gets me so far, if I want to get past that, I need to practice to get there.
I don't think anything that El Estepario does is really that hard to master provided you put the time, which currently I don't have.
 
ZDrumMan said:
I have learned that there are gifts we are born with and everybody's is different. One such gift is the ability to do music, to play an instrument, to appreciate all the nuances needed to do music. When I hit the gym daily, I got to a point of being able to bench press my weight with dumbbells but could only curl about 30 maybe 35 pounds. My workout friend could curl 50 pounds, his arms were longer from the shoulder to the elbow and he said that is why. Not sure if that is the case, but he had an ability I did not. Just like I can lay down a groove and do some nice fills but I will never be (insert any professional name). They have their skills, I have mine. There might actually be things that I can do they can't. My point is, talent can be improved through practice but there are those that will never be able to play the drums.
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I agree with you there, I can play basketball, I can even be a very decent player, but no matter how hard I try, I will never ever reach Michael Jordan's level, and I'm ok with that. I know and understand my limitations, but when it comes to drumming, I don't think you have to be born a natural athlete, I think 99% of drumming can be played by any drummer provided they learn it and practice it.
The remaining 1% of drumming is for some ridiculously fast double bass or Thomas Haake part that even he can't play anymore.
 
doggyd69b said:
You are in the same camp with "El Estepario Siberiano" He also gets upset when people tell him he is very talented..



To me non musicians pay you a compliment when they mention how talented you are because they don't know or care to know what it takes to get there. Anyone who gets upset about that is literally just looking for something to be upset about. (maybe a millennial or Gen Z if not, even more shame on you).

I believe Talent is something that can be developed through practice (so in that sense, I agree with EES above) but I also know that there are some people that can immediately play an instrument without any prior knowledge. ( I am one of those). That said my natural talent only gets me so far, if I want to get past that, I need to practice to get there.
I don't think anything that El Estepario does is really that hard to master provided you put the time, which currently I don't have.
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Don't get me wrong, I recognize it as a compliment and always appreciate it. I just know it's misplaced and choose different words when complimenting musicians. My annoyance is that complimenting someone's talent is the norm.
 
I've always considered myself talent challenged. I play guitar, bass, and piano. All at different levels. I don't consider myself an accomplished musician on any of those instruments, but I can play at the "impress your friends and make your mother cry" level on all of them. None of that has come naturally, I've had to work every step of the way. Now the work is learning drums.

I think there are keys to success for a person lacking talent.

Practice, practice, practice.
Learn what practice techniques work for you.
Identify weakness and work to make it a strength.
Recognize that you have certain physical, mental, emotional limitations.
Embrace your limitations and build around them.
Remember it's not what you do, it's how well you do it.
 
Square said:
, but I can play at the "impress your friends and make your mother cry" level on all of them. None of that has come naturally, I've had to work every step of the way. Now the work is learning drums.
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Make your mother cry as in "I'm so proud of you" or make your mother cry as in "Where did I go wrong?"
 
doggyd69b said:
Make your mother cry as in "I'm so proud of you" or make your mother cry as in "Where did I go wrong?"
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To be honest, in my younger years it was probably the latter. At 18 playing bars, running all over God's green earth, and "hanging out" with questionable women probably caused a few sleepless nights for her.
 
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