Possible new drummer - ekit vs acoustic/mesh heads/LV cymbals vs acoustic/cymbals/mutes

StefaniB

Member
It's sort of where I started. I was a teacher and had to start teaching drums. I was 32. I had access to kits where I worked and after I while I borrowed some pieces from storage that I took home and dampened in some primitive way so I could start on a bit on coordination work.

You definetly want a throne and stand for your pad.
I have a new throne already. I got it for free at some point I think ordering something through MF in the past. I'm sure it's not great but it will get me started. I'll get the practice pad in my hands and see how it is mountable.
 

StefaniB

Member
Noise issues aside, I will say that transitioning from playing an acoustic kit to an e-kit is far easier than going the other way around. I learned how to play drums on e-kits for the same noise and space concerns you mentioned. When I finally was in a spot financially (and space available) to get a real acoustic kit, I sorta had to re-learn some things in order to play properly on the acoustic kit (primarily with cymbal work, tuning, etc). I wouldn't have had that problem if I went from acoustic to e-kit. I have a huge preference over acoustic kits though so this may just be me.

If you learn on an acoustic kit you can move over to an e-kit with little to no effort, so I would suggest going the acoustic route and use some dampening/silent methods. Just seems more beneficial for learning to play drums in my opinion. I wish I started on acoustic. Practice pad for now is a smart move though. Gotta develop those hands and speed.
That was my main concern about an ekit. I know from my time limited on a drum kit in the past, that the cymbals and especially hi-hat was a concern. I didn't even consider the tuning angle.
 

StefaniB

Member
Dont get too carried away doing practise pad rudiments...sure learn a paradidle or so...but what about ur feet? I found it very weird when I sat at a kit for the first time....those rudiments went south real quick once I started using my feet.....its like I had to start all over again.
That is my concern about using a practice pad only for a significant length of time (months+).
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
I have a new throne already. I got it for free at some point I think ordering something through MF in the past. I'm sure it's not great but it will get me started. I'll get the practice pad in my hands and see how it is mountable.
As long as you have something where yoy can adjust the height and get a propper posture it's fine.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
Pearl Decade
Hi @StefaniB, and welcome to DW! I’m newi to the forum too but I already love it. There’s so many great knowledgeable players and experienced guys on here, and we have a good laugh about drums and music in general!:D On the kit front, all I’d say is I’ve never owned a bad Pearl drum kit. With regard to cymbals, have you also considered Paiste, they do great competitively priced cymbals for rock/metal? In terms of rudiments, they’re all a combo of singles, doubles and flams. If you get those 3 basic aspects down first to the point where you are comfortable leading with both hands you’ll be able to smash all of the rudiments. For metal I also recommend that what goes for the hands, goes for the feet. Don’t be too hard on yourself by expecting to build Rome in a day; I’ve been playing for 32 years and I’m nowhere near where I want to be, but that’s all part of the fun!!(y):) Keep us posted and keep smashing it! :D (y)
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
Hi @StefaniB, is there really nowhere else to put the kit? A basement is ideal. Even the quietest of electronic kits is going to make some noise, and if it's in the next room it'll probably wake someone up. Low volume cymbals are cool, but still loud enough to disturb someone in an adjacent room.

As a teacher of many years, I've seen every single new student with an e-kit (every single one!) get frustrated after about six months, and decide to ditch it once they sit down to a real kit. The feel is just very, very different. Your bass drum and hand technique won't develop properly, because the e-kit pads are just too forgiving. When struck, they send out a sample of a well-played, well-tuned drum hit, even if your hits are weak, off-center, or come in from a strange angle. Additionally, the e-kits are small, compact, and very adjustable, so you're very likely to set things up in a way that doesn't reflect the shape and spacing of a real kit.

FWIW, I have an acoustic kit muffled/silenced using a variety of things: Aquarian superpads on the kick and snare, Evans SoundOff's on the toms, and my cymbal mutes are homemade, using 4-inch wide elastic purchased at a craft store (wrapped around like a steering wheel, and stapled together). If I happen to have the house to myself, I can remove all of these things in a minute, and play the kit wide open.

4 on the floor, HH 2 & 4! (y) :)
You certainly should learn to do this, but I don't feel it's wise or necessary at the very beginning. It's enough to get the stick motions together, and adding the feet from the very beginning is likely to cause you to lose your form and focus. Once a rudiment is solid w.r.t. hand technique, then yes, go ahead and play it along with the feet.
 

StefaniB

Member
Hi @StefaniB, and welcome to DW! I’m newi to the forum too but I already love it. There’s so many great knowledgeable players and experienced guys on here, and we have a good laugh about drums and music in general!:D On the kit front, all I’d say is I’ve never owned a bad Pearl drum kit. With regard to cymbals, have you also considered Paiste, they do great competitively priced cymbals for rock/metal? In terms of rudiments, they’re all a combo of singles, doubles and flams. If you get those 3 basic aspects down first to the point where you are comfortable leading with both hands you’ll be able to smash all of the rudiments. For metal I also recommend that what goes for the hands, goes for the feet. Don’t be too hard on yourself by expecting to build Rome in a day; I’ve been playing for 32 years and I’m nowhere near where I want to be, but that’s all part of the fun!!(y):) Keep us posted and keep smashing it! :D (y)
I have zero issues considering Pearl. I've looked at the Export and Decade lineup. My only dealbreaker/maker is that a kit needs to be birch and/or maple and easy to tune. Beyond that I don't know enough about drum construction to know if they are easy to tune, quality metal, etc. so that's where I get stuck with all of these kits in the same price range. There were things about the Mapex that I read that sounded like a good match for me. I'm seriously considering the Yamaha SC 5-piece and expanding it down the road if I want.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
You certainly should learn to do this, but I don't feel it's wise or necessary at the very beginning. It's enough to get the stick motions together, and adding the feet from the very beginning is likely to cause you to lose your form and focus. Once a rudiment is solid w.r.t. hand technique, then yes, go ahead and play it along with the feet.
I respectfully disagree. I think the absolute opposite; it helps form and focus. An incredible, and I mean incredible, teacher taught me to practice like that. All good though, to each their own.🙂👍
 

StefaniB

Member
Hi @StefaniB, is there really nowhere else to put the kit? A basement is ideal. Even the quietest of electronic kits is going to make some noise, and if it's in the next room it'll probably wake someone up. Low volume cymbals are cool, but still loud enough to disturb someone in an adjacent room.

As a teacher of many years, I've seen every single new student with an e-kit (every single one!) get frustrated after about six months, and decide to ditch it once they sit down to a real kit. The feel is just very, very different. Your bass drum and hand technique won't develop properly, because the e-kit pads are just too forgiving. When struck, they send out a sample of a well-played, well-tuned drum hit, even if your hits are weak, off-center, or come in from a strange angle. Additionally, the e-kits are small, compact, and very adjustable, so you're very likely to set things up in a way that doesn't reflect the shape and spacing of a real kit.

FWIW, I have an acoustic kit muffled/silenced using a variety of things: Aquarian superpads on the kick and snare, Evans SoundOff's on the toms, and my cymbal mutes are homemade, using 4-inch wide elastic purchased at a craft store (wrapped around like a steering wheel, and stapled together). If I happen to have the house to myself, I can remove all of these things in a minute, and play the kit wide open.



You certainly should learn to do this, but I don't feel it's wise or necessary at the very beginning. It's enough to get the stick motions together, and adding the feet from the very beginning is likely to cause you to lose your form and focus. Once a rudiment is solid w.r.t. hand technique, then yes, go ahead and play it along with the feet.
There is nowhere else to set up the kit unless it goes into one of the two rooms on the second level. I live on the east coast where the water table is literally six inches or less, so I have not seen a house with basement in this area. I think I've come to the conclusion my piano and bass practicing will have to occur during the down hours and drum practicing will occur when everyone is up. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for your input on the ekit!!! This confirms my biggest fear about starting on an ekit, ekit is too forgiving and the skills are not easily transferring to an acoustic kit. The ekit is most likely off the table.

Any chance I could get a pic of your homemade cymbal mute set up? How much volume does it cut down? I would like to buy regular cymbals instead of the L80s, if I can get away with it. I could then whale away on the drums from time to time, if I buy RTOMS, etc.
 

StefaniB

Member
Hi @StefaniB, and welcome to DW! I’m newi to the forum too but I already love it. There’s so many great knowledgeable players and experienced guys on here, and we have a good laugh about drums and music in general!:D On the kit front, all I’d say is I’ve never owned a bad Pearl drum kit. With regard to cymbals, have you also considered Paiste, they do great competitively priced cymbals for rock/metal? In terms of rudiments, they’re all a combo of singles, doubles and flams. If you get those 3 basic aspects down first to the point where you are comfortable leading with both hands you’ll be able to smash all of the rudiments. For metal I also recommend that what goes for the hands, goes for the feet. Don’t be too hard on yourself by expecting to build Rome in a day; I’ve been playing for 32 years and I’m nowhere near where I want to be, but that’s all part of the fun!!(y):) Keep us posted and keep smashing it! :D (y)
I forgot this part. I have no issues considering Paiste, especially if I get a full volume cymbal set. Some of there lines are out of my price range I'm sure. I listed the specific Zildjian and Sabian line ups because I'm barely familiar with them enough to know I'm getting something good that I can afford.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
There is nowhere else to set up the kit unless it goes into one of the two rooms on the second level. I live on the east coast where the water table is literally six inches or less, so I have not seen a house with basement in this area. I think I've come to the conclusion my piano and bass practicing will have to occur during the down hours and drum practicing will occur when everyone is up. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for your input on the ekit!!! This confirms my biggest fear about starting on an ekit, ekit is too forgiving and the skills are not easily transferring to an acoustic kit. The ekit is most likely off the table.

Any chance I could get a pic of your homemade cymbal mute set up? How much volume does it cut down? I would like to buy regular cymbals instead of the L80s, if I can get away with it. I could then whale away on the drums from time to time, if I buy RTOMS, etc.
Hold a cymbal at the edge with your whole hand, and play it with the other hand. That's the sound. Not great, obviously, but easily removed for full-volume practice.
 

brentcn

Platinum Member
I respectfully disagree. I think the absolute opposite; it helps form and focus. An incredible, and I mean incredible, teacher taught me to practice like that. All good though, to each their own.🙂👍
I get it, and if you're naturally coordinated enough that it doesn't hinder you, fine. But, your own experience with that one teacher, no matter how incredible, is only one example. I've been on the other side of this for about 15 years. All of my students have been too uncoordinated to get the feet going with the hands, from the get-go (i.e. the FIRST time you ever play a paradiddle). Adding feet in later speeds up the process, overall. To clarify, I'm not against a foot ostinato; I just like to put it off until there's some muscle memory going in the hands, which usually doesn't take very long. What I don't like is having a confused, frustrated student trying to do too many things at once, potentially thinking they're not going to get it.

And, down the road, yes, having the feet going isn't a hindrance. But those first few weeks? Yikes. I mean, unless you've been a tap dancer or something like that.
 

StefaniB

Member
Why?

You should learn to play the things first before getting stuck on wood types.
I'm not hung up on wood types per se but it was a quick and dirty way to distinguish the entry/beginner shells from the intermediate shells, which Is the level of shells I was interested in.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
I'm not hung up on wood types per se but it was a quick and dirty way to distinguish the entry/beginner shells from the intermediate shells, which Is the level of shells I was interested in.
30 years ago that would have mattered. Drums are being built with such quality today you really have to try hard to get a crap set.

If you are going to mute them, it doesnt matter at all.
 

Al Strange

Well-known member
I get it, and if you're naturally coordinated enough that it doesn't hinder you, fine. But, your own experience with that one teacher, no matter how incredible, is only one example. I've been on the other side of this for about 15 years. All of my students have been too uncoordinated to get the feet going with the hands, from the get-go (i.e. the FIRST time you ever play a paradiddle). Adding feet in later speeds up the process, overall. To clarify, I'm not against a foot ostinato; I just like to put it off until there's some muscle memory going in the hands, which usually doesn't take very long. What I don't like is having a confused, frustrated student trying to do too many things at once, potentially thinking they're not going to get it.

And, down the road, yes, having the feet going isn't a hindrance. But those first few weeks? Yikes. I mean, unless you've been a tap dancer or something like that.
I get you mate, each pupil is different and one size doesn’t fit all. 👍
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Dumb question... Doesn't everyone else intuitively tap a foot ostinato when practicing rudiments on a pad? Whether it be a walk or 4-on-the-floor or something else like Samba?
New Drummer, hopefully. No such thing as a dumb question. Maybe some dumb answers ?
 

StefaniB

Member
30 years ago that would have mattered. Drums are being built with such quality today you really have to try hard to get a crap set.

If you are going to mute them, it doesnt matter at all.
Then it's great time to be starting out as a drummer (at least for the shells, maybe not cymbals).

I think at this point I don't plan on leaving them muted all the time or forever. I'm exploring my options as I start working on a practice pad.
 

Noisy

Well-known member
I get it, and if you're naturally coordinated enough that it doesn't hinder you, fine. But, your own experience with that one teacher, no matter how incredible, is only one example. I've been on the other side of this for about 15 years. All of my students have been too uncoordinated to get the feet going with the hands, from the get-go (i.e. the FIRST time you ever play a paradiddle). Adding feet in later speeds up the process, overall. To clarify, I'm not against a foot ostinato; I just like to put it off until there's some muscle memory going in the hands, which usually doesn't take very long. What I don't like is having a confused, frustrated student trying to do too many things at once, potentially thinking they're not going to get it.

And, down the road, yes, having the feet going isn't a hindrance. But those first few weeks? Yikes. I mean, unless you've been a tap dancer or something like that.
From the standpoint of day one, trying to work hands and feet at the same time, I would agree that it isn’t useful. If day one, someone was practicing one foot at a time to build up the leg and core muscles to properly build toward playing heel-up both feet at the same time with proper posture, I think practicing slow basic beats is very useful. It can take months to work the feet out, independent of hands. So, starting early makes sense to me.
 
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