Playing the upstroke after tap..

Hello Drummer Guys. (Sorry for I'm non-Eng. speaker..)
I have a wondering the kinda details of the tap-to-upstroke (or just upstroke..)
but I could make some guesses of the principle of the upstroke.

When you hit the surface of drum pad with the 3" tap stroke,
the stick leaves the pad and also be rebounded just like a normal stroke, since the stick is given the elasticity from the drum pad. Hence, consequently it is returned to the initial position.

As such that fact, let we suppose that I hit the upstroke started at low position.
Aftet the tip of stick contects to the pad by "right way" hitting of the tap stroke, It is okay to raise my wrist when the stick is just about to leave the pad?
 

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iCe

Senior Member
It's more more or less a fluent motion, but it takes practice. When you hit the pad and start moving your hand and arm up again for the next stroke, then is the time to push the stick down with your fingers to get 2nd (or 3rd) hit.

 

Sebenza

Member
After the tip of stick contects to the pad by "right way" hitting of the tap stroke, It is okay to raise my wrist when the stick is just about to leave the pad?
I assume you're working on the free stroke thing, like in the Famularo book? You have to follow the stick with your wrist, yes, but since the stick won't rebound up to the 3" position on it's own, its important to try to feel the same sensation as just following the stick rebound through a full stroke...that would mean you are still making use of the sticks rebound as much as possible, even if you're completing the last part of the motion on your own.
 
I assume you're working on the free stroke thing, like in the Famularo book? You have to follow the stick with your wrist, yes, but since the stick won't rebound up to the 3" position on it's own, its important to try to feel the same sensation as just following the stick rebound through a full stroke...that would mean you are still making use of the sticks rebound as much as possible, even if you're completing the last part of the motion on your own.
Thank you for the comments!
First, Sorry that I just asked about the details of the upstroke, not the full stroke(free stroke).. like this. (0:37~)

This guy is playing upstroke after the tapping,
So I asked you guys about,
when the stick kinda touches the pad with just a 3'' tap stroke, the stick gets the elasticity on the surface of the pad and after,
the stick will be about to go up to 3'' position (origin point). (start at 3'' position -> touches the surface -> get elasticity and go up directly to the same position)

Hence, to arrive at the top position for playing tap-to-upstroke (not the just tapping) like the guy,
can I put my wrist up right after the tip is about to leave the surface of pad helping elasticity that makes stick goes up?
 
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Sebenza

Member
Hence, to arrive at the top position for playing tap-to-upstroke (not the just tapping) like the guy,
can I put my wrist up right after the tip is about to leave the surface of pad helping elasticity that makes stick goes up?
Have you thoroughly practiced the motion of following the rebounding stick up with the wrist in the full stroke? If yes, then you need to try to duplicate that motion of the stick guiding your wrist up, except you're doing most of the work. And I would say that the wrist starts moving towards the up position "right after" striking the drum, not when "its about to".

The whole point of that system is preparing the strokes beforehand such that your stick is already in the right position for the next stroke, whether it'd be an accent, tap or in between.

There's a guy here on the forum that wrote a good book about it. I think its called The Level System, not sure... I cant remember his name but maybe he still pops in from time to time and sees your thread.
 
And I would say that the wrist starts moving towards the up position "right after" striking the drum, not when "its about to".
Sorry I think I used improper expression "its about to".
Ah.. then you means just help the wrist go up position(do not rigid, not include most of the directly working to wrist, just help working to reach the top position) at that time(right after) the stick starts to go up by rebounding?

(I am worrying that I understood well your comments..)
 
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Sebenza

Member
Sorry I think I used improper expression "its about to".
Ah.. then you means just help the wrist go up position(do not rigid, not include most of the directly working to wrist, just help working to reach the top position) at that time(right after) the stick starts to go up by rebounding?

(I am worrying that I understood well your comments..)
Yes, that's it.
 

toddbishop

Platinum Member
An upstroke is just a quiet note ending with the stick in a raised position-- as you see in the Vic Firth video. Lift the stick with your hand. You don't bounce any part of the motion. Copy the motion in the video.
 

jeffwj

Platinum Member
Jeff Johnson ... a member here ... has a great book called the Level System
worth checking out for sure

https://www.amazon.com/Level-System-Developing-Dynamics-Paperback/dp/B00ZM38N90
...There's a guy here on the forum that wrote a good book about it. I think its called The Level System, not sure... I cant remember his name but maybe he still pops in from time to time and sees your thread.
Thanks for the shout out! I saw this thread, but didn’t originally reply because there is more than one way of doing the upstroke - and such great information provided already. I never want to come off as a “my way is the only way” type of person.

The upstroke can certainly be done in a Moeller-style fashion, by incorporating more of the arm. However, it was shown to me by Joe Morello as a wrist stroke - with the wrist being the hinge. Obviously, isolating the wrist will allow you to concentrate on that one motion. If more volume is needed for the accent that follows, you can add the weight of the arm. Joe certainly used that technique as well.

The important thing is this - the upstroke is followed through in one motion (not tap, then lift from a dead stop). I talked about this in the round table discussion that Matt Patella hosted with some former students of Joe Morello (Matt, Steve Forster, Allen Herman, and myself). I linked the video below at the point where I’m asked about this concept.

 
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Thanks for the shout out! I saw this thread, but didn’t originally reply because there is more than one way of doing the upstroke - and such great information provided already. I never want to come off as a “my way is the only way” type of person.

The upstroke can certainly be done in a Moeller-style fashion, by incorporating more of the arm. However, it was shown to me by Joe Morello as a wrist stroke - with the wrist being the hinge. Obviously, isolating the wrist will allow you to concentrate on that one motion. If more volume is needed for the accent that follows, you can add the weight of the arm. Joe certainly used that technique as well.

The important thing is this - the upstroke is followed through in one motion (not tap, then lift from a dead stop). I talked about this in the round table discussion that Matt Patella hosted with some former students of Joe Morello (Matt, Steve Forster, Allen Herman, and myself). I linked the video below at the point where I’m asked about this concept.


Thanks for your videos..
I am also practicing several way of the upstroke including moeller style, so your comment is very helpful for me. Thank you.
 
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Sebenza

Member
Ah.. I'm really sorry for one more questioning, "right after" means "immediately"?
Yes, to use your words... 'immediately when the stick starts to go up by rebounding'
Watch Jeffs video again, he explains it perfectly from 42:00 onwards in the video he linked.
 
Yes, to use your words... 'immediately when the stick starts to go up by rebounding'
Watch Jeffs video again, he explains it perfectly from 42:00 onwards in the video he linked.
Aha, Now I understand the "car analogy" in video..
So he means in video, according to my understanding,
immediately after the stick starts to go up by rebounding (I guess it's the metaphor of stalled car on a dead stop),
at the time I take the little effort to push up the wrist (car pushing), then the wrist goes up softly to the top position by momentum from pushing... right?

Oh, then not perfect matching but,
I think it can also compare to the rebounding the basketball in that I force only little effort the wrist to make rebounding.
But just to take little effort the basketball 'to upward', in difference.
(Ahhhhhhh hard to explaining.. ㅠ,ㅠ)
 
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jeffwj

Platinum Member
Aha, Now I understand the "car analogy" in video..
So he means in video, according to my understanding,
immediately after the stick starts to go up by rebounding (I guess it's the metaphor of stalled car on a dead stop),
at the time I take the little effort to push up the wrist (car pushing), then the wrist goes up softly to the top position by momentum from pushing... right?
Yes, for an upstroke, you don’t want to pull the stick up from a dead stop. You want to follow the motion of the stick as it is already rebounding.


Thanks,

Jeff
 
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