Playing drums and music- a low barrier to entry compared to other occupations?

A friend and I were having this discussion at dinner about how there are low and high barriers to entry in different occupations in life.
ex: If you want to become a pilot you may need a college degree, will have to pass a stringent medical check, study for ground school, take flying lessons working your way through the levels of Federal certifications. If you want to become a CPA it usually takes a degree in accounting and taking an exam, etc...

Can you become a musician by getting hold of an instrument without training or simply playing along to music?

At what point do you call yourself a drummer? When you have drums and play music?

Discuss
My profession is computer programming. It suffers from many of the same issues. There is a low barrier to entry. No real certifications or anything. You run into all kinds of people in the field. Cross over wannabes, people that read about AI in a magazine and learned some code, people who can't code but can network, diploma mills to get green cards.

There are people who are really good with computers though.
 
I can't imagine any other occupation that has less formal certification, less consistent standards, requirements or pay rates, or much in the way tangible structure at all than that of... drummer. There are no generally agreed upon levels or grades of evaluation. Literally every job or gig is acquired by having a perceived set of skills that meets the demands or desires of the person hire us. And then being able to satisfy that persons needs on the job. And those needs extend beyond the musical performance part to include look, vibe, demeanor, perceived attitude, or anything else the person is feeling - pro or con - about us. There is no HR - we are independent contractors in every sense of the words - even when we are technically employees. Enjoying remarkably few labor protections - particularly when it comes to hiring.

Few, if any, care about how we learned to do what we can do - just that we are able to. There is no standardized applicant testing. For instance, playing the part perfectly is no guarantee of anything - as it is how we played the part, how our playing the part felt to the person hiring that matters. And that evaluation is incredibly subjective.

So as others have wrote - There no standard benchmarks, certification, or education requirements of any kind required to pursuing a drumming occupation, and yet in general, the time involved to actual establish such a career is more on par with doctors and lawyers than anything else.

So I think there's two parts - acquiring skills and acquiring experience. The better our skills, and the broader our skills defines the type and amount of different types of drumming work we can pursue. It doesn't matter that there's no certification - we still have to be able to do what we claim we can.

Then there's the experience part - which for me is where and how we learn to hone our skills for making people - the other people we play with like our playing. Because getting people to like playing with you, to want to play with you more is the whole thing. That's the core of the career - playing with people and having them want to play with you again. That's where the next call comes from. That's where that recommendation comes from. That call from someone saying "So and so says you're really good and would be perfect for this music - so we've got a string of jobs next month that we'd like to have you do". That's the occupation - getting those calls over and over, over and over again.

So how long does it take to establish this as a career? Obviously it's going to really vary. And to a great degree, we can start getting experience as we're working on our skills. But the most common story I know is the player that starts as a young teen - middle school-ish. By high school is seriously into it. Acquiring skills typically beyond their peers and already getting experience - playing in school, playing in bands (how varied this is - will be defined by breadth - which is whole topic by itself). For many after high school, this moves into college - or for others, it doesn't. Either way, it is now about honing skills while trying to play a lot more - gathering more experience.... building a reputation... and if this all goes well, we can end up in an occupation, a career. Will drumming be the only thing we do for money - to support ourselves? Maybe, maybe not.

Again we're talking about an occupation that has zero formal structure or definition. Sure in general it does. But when we get down to specifics - it is really, really varied.

So my general sense of the timeline to making any kind of dependable living (if there is such a thing in this occupation) would be 10-20. Personally I ended up sort of splitting the difference with that - started when I was 10, was quite serious about it by 12, and was 25 before things were at a place where I was "making a living" with it. As unremarkable as that living was. Things got better over the next 5-10 - but then - and this is another whole conversation - as occupations go, drumming is a horrendous choice - if financial security or financial gain is deemed important.

First off - much like being a doctor or a lawyer, all of that work - training and experience - is no guarantee that the goal is achievable. Tons of folks that pursue being doctors, don't end up being doctors. In simple terms, if not enough people want to play with us, it is not going to work.

And then even if it does - it just doesn't pay that well overall. IMO it is almost as much a calling than an occupation. My advice has long been students considering this is "if you can get yourself to do something else, you absolutely should... do something else. For a vocation, an occupation. Leave drumming as hobby.... maybe even a hobby you make some money at.

And I've never seen that as being discouraging to that person - because in my experience, everyone I've ever known to have actually make this their occupation, their profession would never be deterred by such a comment. The career itself is going to beat them up far worse than that. :)

And none of that is about whether they are good enough or not - it is about whether they are able to handle the horrible risk vs. reward ratio the occupation offers. I remember being backstage at some fairly cool gig with a bunch of other players in their 40-50's and the discussion turned to "Ever wonder why of all of the people we played with in our youth, that we are the ones here doing this gig?" And someone immediately chimed in with "Because we're the ones that could never get ourselves to stop doing this" And we all laughed - knowing that he wasn't saying that we were that special, but that we were that stupid! :)
 
Can you call yourself a professional drummer if you play paying gigs? Then that might make me one since every single gig I played ever I got paid, not a lot but still I was lucky and never played for free. I feel there is no such thing as a low or high barrier it’s just how much of your time you are willing to give something. I believe natural talent plays a small part but the main part is you learning and practicing, those anyone can do.
 
I think if you pick up a pair of sticks and can keep a Beat you're a drummer! Of course there are different ways to achieve that, including self-taught, taking lessons, going to college etc. But if you have the passion and the drive and you spend many hours trying to perfect your craft... you're a drummer!

I have had the privilege of drumming with my grandson and my nephew on different occasions and both have told me that they cannot play the hats to the rhythm of a song. For some reason they can't coordinate a beat with the hats and they have been drumming for many more years than I have. They have watched me use the hats and they would say how do you do that? Everyone has a gift and even some are born prodigies that have a God-given talent.

BTW if you ever saw how I perfected that gift with my bare foot on the hats you would be laughing your heads off! But it sounds fantastic to my ears... that's all that matters. LOL
 
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Given how few people fully support themselves as a drummer (or any musician), I'd say the barrier to entry to much, much, much higher than in any other profession.

You can be the most skilled drummer in town, but it doesn't mean you're going to pay your bills only from playing drums. Lots of super-talented players don't have enough gigs that pay.

I mean, out of everyone on this forum, there are only a handful of people who don't have a day job or other career to support themselves.

And even if you're among those they go out on tour, do sessions, make money, so many professional drummers come and go. One minute they're touring the world, the next their looking for a job because the tour ended, the band broke up, they got canned for someone else, etc. So many "famous" drummers ended up getting a day job after the glory days of touring ended.

Where as there are hundreds of careers that if you just show up to work every day on time, you can keep your job (or at least your career) indefinately.
 
Well they'll give any idiot a PhD-I prove that everyday. I remember there were the gunners in my wife's Med school class (all A's she was one of them) and then the larger population of C=MD attitude. I think about that when I first meet a new physician (for my growing ailments LOL)-is this fella or gal one of the C people?
One of my son-in-laws is an artist (he has an art degree from SCAD)-he's getting great reviews and selling it making a living but he's in a similar position of being a Will-o"-the-wisp in hopes. Myself I'm only almost 70 and I've been a late bloomer in life so figure I'll be the same on drums and I will not come into my own till I'm about 80. So I got ta get hopping.

On a side note we could have a riveting conversation about low barriers affecting education, some occupations, all the forbidden p word that can't be spoken, society in general after examining certain data of late. It's Bizarro World here in the US.

 
Can you become a musician by getting hold of an instrument without training or simply playing along to music?
Yes, you can. I’m proof of that. Most of my friends are this way as well. With that said, you have to put in the work. Just like you can’t buy a DSM-5 and call yourself a psychologist.


At what point do you call yourself a drummer? When you have drums and play music?

You know, I don’t know. I still tend to say “I play drums” instead of “I’m a drummer.” In a weird way, I don’t feel like I deserve that title yet.
 
The adages are that it's about a $3000 entry to pick up a serious hobby, and it takes 10,000 hours to become a world class expert at something.

Pearl Roadshow for $560. Wuhan pack for $400. Good heads $200, mesh heads $200, knock-off silent cymbals $70. Bags $200, carrying cart $300. Books & sticks $200. Private lessons every other week(ish) for a year, $1000-1500.

Play, practice, read and learn an average of 2 hours a day, and in 13-14 years you'll be the equivalent of a rocket scientist on the drums. (edit: Not to mention continue to spend stupid amounts of money over time!)
 
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It depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go and that's one of the few things you can control.

Then there's all the things you can't control.

If something good comes along grab it with both hands. Never been a full time drummer but I've done OK out of it.
 
It’s kind of like my day job. They’ll hire just about anyone and put them on crew. But the gig anything but easy and the pay is low. Sure some outstanding individuals can take that ball and run it up to a small fortune but most of us just take joint supplements and try to keep trucking as long as we are able to.
 
I can't imagine any other occupation that has less formal certification, less consistent standards, requirements or pay rates, or much in the way tangible structure at all than that of... drummer. There are no generally agreed upon levels or grades of evaluation. Literally every job or gig is acquired by having a perceived set of skills that meets the demands or desires of the person hire us. And then being able to satisfy that persons needs on the job. And those needs extend beyond the musical performance part to include look, vibe, demeanor, perceived attitude, or anything else the person is feeling - pro or con - about us. There is no HR - we are independent contractors in every sense of the words - even when we are technically employees. Enjoying remarkably few labor protections - particularly when it comes to hiring.

Few, if any, care about how we learned to do what we can do - just that we are able to. There is no standardized applicant testing. For instance, playing the part perfectly is no guarantee of anything - as it is how we played the part, how our playing the part felt to the person hiring that matters. And that evaluation is incredibly subjective.

So as others have wrote - There no standard benchmarks, certification, or education requirements of any kind required to pursuing a drumming occupation, and yet in general, the time involved to actual establish such a career is more on par with doctors and lawyers than anything else.

So I think there's two parts - acquiring skills and acquiring experience. The better our skills, and the broader our skills defines the type and amount of different types of drumming work we can pursue. It doesn't matter that there's no certification - we still have to be able to do what we claim we can.

Then there's the experience part - which for me is where and how we learn to hone our skills for making people - the other people we play with like our playing. Because getting people to like playing with you, to want to play with you more is the whole thing. That's the core of the career - playing with people and having them want to play with you again. That's where the next call comes from. That's where that recommendation comes from. That call from someone saying "So and so says you're really good and would be perfect for this music - so we've got a string of jobs next month that we'd like to have you do". That's the occupation - getting those calls over and over, over and over again.

So how long does it take to establish this as a career? Obviously it's going to really vary. And to a great degree, we can start getting experience as we're working on our skills. But the most common story I know is the player that starts as a young teen - middle school-ish. By high school is seriously into it. Acquiring skills typically beyond their peers and already getting experience - playing in school, playing in bands (how varied this is - will be defined by breadth - which is whole topic by itself). For many after high school, this moves into college - or for others, it doesn't. Either way, it is now about honing skills while trying to play a lot more - gathering more experience.... building a reputation... and if this all goes well, we can end up in an occupation, a career. Will drumming be the only thing we do for money - to support ourselves? Maybe, maybe not.

Again we're talking about an occupation that has zero formal structure or definition. Sure in general it does. But when we get down to specifics - it is really, really varied.

So my general sense of the timeline to making any kind of dependable living (if there is such a thing in this occupation) would be 10-20. Personally I ended up sort of splitting the difference with that - started when I was 10, was quite serious about it by 12, and was 25 before things were at a place where I was "making a living" with it. As unremarkable as that living was. Things got better over the next 5-10 - but then - and this is another whole conversation - as occupations go, drumming is a horrendous choice - if financial security or financial gain is deemed important.

First off - much like being a doctor or a lawyer, all of that work - training and experience - is no guarantee that the goal is achievable. Tons of folks that pursue being doctors, don't end up being doctors. In simple terms, if not enough people want to play with us, it is not going to work.

And then even if it does - it just doesn't pay that well overall. IMO it is almost as much a calling than an occupation. My advice has long been students considering this is "if you can get yourself to do something else, you absolutely should... do something else. For a vocation, an occupation. Leave drumming as hobby.... maybe even a hobby you make some money at.

And I've never seen that as being discouraging to that person - because in my experience, everyone I've ever known to have actually make this their occupation, their profession would never be deterred by such a comment. The career itself is going to beat them up far worse than that. :)

And none of that is about whether they are good enough or not - it is about whether they are able to handle the horrible risk vs. reward ratio the occupation offers. I remember being backstage at some fairly cool gig with a bunch of other players in their 40-50's and the discussion turned to "Ever wonder why of all of the people we played with in our youth, that we are the ones here doing this gig?" And someone immediately chimed in with "Because we're the ones that could never get ourselves to stop doing this" And we all laughed - knowing that he wasn't saying that we were that special, but that we were that stupid! :)
That’s a lot of words 😉
 
A friend and I were having this discussion at dinner about how there are low and high barriers to entry in different occupations in life.
ex: If you want to become a pilot you may need a college degree, will have to pass a stringent medical check, study for ground school, take flying lessons working your way through the levels of Federal certifications. If you want to become a CPA it usually takes a degree in accounting and taking an exam, etc...

Can you become a musician by getting hold of an instrument without training or simply playing along to music?

At what point do you call yourself a drummer? When you have drums and play music?

Discuss
You started this thread… what did you with your friend discuss regarding musicians? If you didn’t discuss, what perspectives have you come up with?
 
Travis Barker once said he got so many tattoos to ensure he wouldn't have a fall-back plan should music not work out... It's a burn-the-lifeboats strategy that one has to admire.

There is a difference now that doesn't seem to have commented on: Very few bands have meteoric success in the current era. It takes literally years to capture enough attention to get beyond the club level into actual touring and more years than that to make it up the ladder with festivals and touring larger venues. Thus, lots of full-time musicians face years of eking out a subsistence living before making even the kind of money a college grad can expect in their first year ... In a lot of cases now, it's rich kids and those with very supportive wives and girlfriends.

Years of poverty and instability do a lot to knock a lot of talented musicians off the path of making a living with music alone ... It must be frustrating to struggle to get a toehold in music as a career while see people your own age celebrate milestones like a new car, a nice home or kids while pursuing boring, but lucrative careers.
 
I think one of the high barriers for becoming a professional musician is dealing with rejection, criticism, negative social interactions, compromising definitions of "success", keeping non traditional hours etc... in the old days - well, up until the 2000's, it was called "taking your lumps"

this facet is why a lot of people can't hang in the industry from what I have seen

It also depends on the style of music you go into....you can be a "rock star" without formal training; you CAN'T be a symphonic musician without formal training; you can teach without formal training, but you can't teach in a professional setting with out formal training (licensure etc).

I feel like there is no profession that has only low barriers to success
 
You started this thread… what did you with your friend discuss regarding musicians? If you didn’t discuss, what perspectives have you come up with?
Pretty much agreed with what dcrigger said in his lengthy well-worded response that there's no HR dept. no certification and standardization to get the job and each success story is as unique as the individiual.

Regarding the more philisophical question of When do you call yourself a drummer? I'd align with PorkPIeGuy's response.
 
lol. I think the barrier for entry is way higher to be a musician than almost any other profession and it's only getting higher. After many years of practicing and a few years of school, I thought I was (and am) pretty fantastic at playing drums, but no where near good enough to call myself a professional. After a few years of school, I'm a passable lawyer. No one ever bats an eye when I say that I'm a professional lawyer.
 
I can't imagine any other occupation that has less formal certification, less consistent standards, requirements or pay rates, or much in the way tangible structure at all than that of... drummer. There are no generally agreed upon levels or grades of evaluation.

David is correct. Simply put: there is no career path for being a working musician. You can play all the right parts, network like crazy, go out on auditions, and otherwise devote yourself 24/7 to 'making it', and not get anywhere. Or you can be an average player who happens to be in the right place at the right time, and enjoy a successful career.

Sounds kinda bleak, but that's pretty much the way it is for players. It's really not possible to make it happen based solely on desire and effort.
 
drummers are accompanists
drums are mostly usually an accompanying instrument
in any genre
hitch yer wagon to star material

how about that?
 
David is correct. Simply put: there is no career path for being a working musician. You can play all the right parts, network like crazy, go out on auditions, and otherwise devote yourself 24/7 to 'making it', and not get anywhere. Or you can be an average player who happens to be in the right place at the right time, and enjoy a successful career.

People who are committed figure out a way to make it work, one way or another. Surviving as a musician, not necessarily big money/fame success. People work it out individually. That is success as far as I'm concerned.
 
I think about that when I first meet a new physician (for my growing ailments LOL)-is this fella or gal one of the C people?

There are ways to gauge quality really quick, like asking a drummer to play a Purdie shuffle. For a doctor, ask them a question that reveals if they understand Bayesian probability in a way that directly impacts their field. Most fail.

For example:

"A disease that affects 1 in 1000 people has a false positive rate of 5%. What are the odds that a patient with a positive result has the disease?"

If your physician says 95% then they're a hack, and you should find another.

Hint: Given 1000 people, you expect 1 to actually have the disease compared to 50 false positives.
 
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