Perhaps it's time to have a second cymbal set

wildbill

Platinum Member
I got a second Paiste ride recently - a 20" Signature Full Ride.

I got it because after so many years of using Zildjian, I got a Paiste 3000 22" Power Ride and liked it a lot, and thought I'd try another one of their line.

But here's the thing - they sound pretty much alike, except for the pitch. I've heard them referred to as 'glassy', and I'd agree with that.
Even though there's quite a few years between these two, they still sound very similar.

Same type of clear, glassy, focused sound from each part of the cymbals when comparing the two.
The only standout difference is a bit lower pitch on the larger cymbal.
This is with two different models too.
Maybe it's the machines that make it so?

The difference from the Zildjian sound is what attracted me to them in the first place. But I don't think I'd use the two Paiste cymbals together. Too much similarity in the sound.
They work better when using them individually, and paired with a Zildjian for a little contrast.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
I cringed at that Meinl factory segment. To me, watching a computer make a cymbal is almost sacrilegious. I want humans working metal, sweating over ovens and lathes and hammers.

I’m firmly in the old school that says that every cymbal should be different. Too much consistency = sterile and boring.
But in threads about something like Dream cymbals, people complain that they have to go through a pile 20 cymbals to find one that they like. Isn't that the flip side of having them man-made? Or else they're made by Matt Nolan and end up quite a bit pricier than what you're paying Zildjian. Do you want cheap labor, expensive labor, or machines? Personally, I think all three have their place.

Also, for the people comparing a pair of "identical" cymbals and saying they're different, how different are they really? Sure, you might find a sligh difference in pitch, but is there really a difference in the character of the cymbal? The wash, the ping, the sustain? So much of a difference that you'd confuse it for a cymbal of a different model or line?
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
It most definitely does still happen!

Just last week I tried out 3 supposedly identical Zildjians (same line, same size, etc.), and they were all different. Same ballpark, but different bases.

I find that as I get older my tastes in cymbals are getting so refined that I want to try literally every relevant cymbal in the shop and then carefully chose the best ear candy.

I would never blindly buy a boxed set of cymbals.
Maybe you should try buying cymbals blind. It'd be interesting to see if you could make them work up on the bandstand ;)

I'm kidding. But maybe that would be exciting for me.
 

Drumolator

Platinum Member
I recently got back a cymbal I gave to a church about ten years ago. It is Sabian AA Medium-Thin Crash 16". After I gave it away, on two different occasions I bought another of the same model. Both times I ended up trading them in for something else because they did not open up easily enough for me, seemed thicker than the one I gave to that church. Since I got back the original one, it is just as good as I remembered and opens way easier than the other two I later bought.

Not too long ago I tested two of the same model A Zildjian crashes, and they were different enough in pitch to use in the same drum set.

With Sabian and Zildjian B20 cymbals, it is wise to listen before you buy. The Paiste consistency is one reason why they cost more. Peace and goodwill.
 

robyn64

Member
Hey all,

I hate to sound like a newbie, but I realize I haven't bought cymbals in 20 years! I'm not replacing my current set, but since I have two drum sets, I think it might be a good idea to have a completely second set to go with them (so if I rent it, I can rent it as complete).

So I'm looking around the internet and saw the Zildjian Sweet pack which consists of a 21 Sweet Ride, 14 New Beats, and 16 and 18 Fast Crashes.

Here's the newbie question: when I bought my current cymbals, the term "fast" was not in use yet. Is it safe to assume these can be considered "thin" crashes?

It's a cool set otherwise.
hey bo, i bought a 16" fast crash and waiting for it to get here.
anyway here is the info that was in the discription of it:

Zildjian A Custom Series 16" Fast Crash



•Bright, airy and responsive Crashes with an extremely short decay. Slightly thinner than the existing Custom Crash, the A Custom Fast Crash explodes with color.

•Category: A Custom Series
•SKU: A20532
•Type: Crash
•Size: 16 in. / 40.64 cm.
•Weight: Paper Thin
•Bell Size: Small
•Profile: Medium-Low
•Pitch: Mid
•Sound: Bright/Mid
•Volume: General
•Balance: Blend
•Sustain: Short
•Skill level: Advanced, Beginner, Intermediate, Professional
•Genre(s): Alternative, Country, Fusion, Hard Rock, Hip Hop, Jazz, Latin, Metal, Other, Percussion, Pop, Punk, Rock, World
A20532 Abe
and a photo:
2510493947414040_4.jpg
Hope this helps a newbie, from a newbie
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
hey bo, i bought a 16" fast crash and waiting for it to get here.
anyway here is the info that was in the discription of it:

Zildjian A Custom Series 16" Fast Crash



•Bright, airy and responsive Crashes with an extremely short decay. Slightly thinner than the existing Custom Crash, the A Custom Fast Crash explodes with color.

•Category: A Custom Series
•SKU: A20532
•Type: Crash
•Size: 16 in. / 40.64 cm.
•Weight: Paper Thin
•Bell Size: Small
•Profile: Medium-Low
•Pitch: Mid
•Sound: Bright/Mid
•Volume: General
•Balance: Blend
•Sustain: Short
•Skill level: Advanced, Beginner, Intermediate, Professional
•Genre(s): Alternative, Country, Fusion, Hard Rock, Hip Hop, Jazz, Latin, Metal, Other, Percussion, Pop, Punk, Rock, World
A20532 Abe
and a photo:
View attachment 50847
Hope this helps a newbie, from a newbie
Thanks Robyn, but I never got a good impression with the A Custom line ever since they came out. I just never liked them - it's probably not fair - but regular ol' A's I think are so much better. I'm biased because A's (and probably regular Paiste 2002's) were most likely the first sounds I ever heard, so when I got my first set, my search was basically over. Come to think of it, my uncle gave me my first set of New Beat hi-hats when I was 7, so my hi hat ear was spoiled at an early age. And when you listen to Buddy Rich and bands like Chicago, Blood, Sweat & Tears, and Steely Dan from that age, you just want to emulate the sounds they had. There really was no improvement in cymbal sounds for me, until I found my K Custom Dark Ride, but that's been my only K ever. If I didn't have that K, it'd be a A. Zildjian Light Ride from the 70s, which is the same thing but a slightly higher pitch. I understand the Sweet Ride is something like that.
 

Kudzu Monroe

Senior Member
I also come from the "if it aint broke don't fix it" school of thought.

The tried and true A series Zildjians just work so well and in most settings.
Like many others I've been all over the map chasing "that" sound and have come to
the conclusion the most versitle set is still 14" hats, 16" and 18" crashs and my 21"
A series ride.

In my case the ride is the 21" Armand version, I also have a Sweet ride but the Armand
has just a bit more definition and is still crashable. the 18" is an old A medium thin and the 16"
is an A custom medium thin projection, the hats old New Beats

As for the "fast" designation, I agree it seems to be a very thin quick decay cymbal
much like the Sabian HHX 16" Evolution I have, it's a stunning cymbal in its own right
very complex and sweet, but lacks projection in a mix IMO ... this is where the A custom
16" really shines, and it's the only A custom I have ever really taken to, as the 16" size
can use that extra cut that the A custom provides ... your results may vary
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Bo - you're a troublemaker.

I went out and bought that sweet, Sweet Ride.

Thanks for stirring things up - ha ha.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Bo - you're a troublemaker.

I went out and bought that sweet, Sweet Ride.

Thanks for stirring things up - ha ha.
Well who's fault is that? Congratulations! How do you like it? Is it washy enough too? I like my rides to crash too. We need a video!
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Just walked in the door with it before the last post. I'll be giving it a workout tomorrow, and will post a pic.
No video camera here, but there's plenty of Sweet Ride videos here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zildjian+sweet+ride&oq=zildjian+sweet+ride&gs_l=youtube.3..0l4j0i5.248.4186.0.6469.16.13.0.3.3.0.251.1774.5j5j3.13.0...0.0...1ac.as41ubZr4xk

There's also the sound files on Zildjian's site.


I think I know one of the benefits of getting a cymbal pack now - there's probably no fingerprints, stick marks, small scratches and so on from being handled in a store.
I gave it a good washing with plain old soap and water, but it still doesn't look 'picture perfect' like some do on the pics here.

It's the only cymbal I have too that has a logo - ha ha. Not sure how that will fit in.
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
.... Is it washy enough too? ....

You want real washy? I got a 24" A ride and the wash overrides the sticking even when playing halfway between the edge and the bell. Get closer to the edge and you can surf on the wash - it comes like waves - ha ha.

Only tried the Sweet Ride a little bit several times in the store, but I can say that the wash doesn't override the sticking - which is exactly what I was after with this one.


EDIT: OK, after using it a bit - the wash can override the sticking, but it doesn't do it on all parts of the cymbal. Mainly on the outer 1/3, or 1/2 if you really push it.



.
 
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BYUDOG

Member
Hey if you get a box set of a's will you please post a review of how they sound. I would like to know if you think they measure up. I have a set of custom a's (hand picked). I might get my son his own kit for christmas and would like to just buy the box of a's.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Update: as I begin to shop around for this sweet cymbal set, apparently, the going rate is $650-$699 for the box. But I'm seeing some sellers cropping up on eBay selling these box sets new for as low as $549. When I look at the individual prices for each cymbal, there's no way I could get this collection for any less than that new, so now I'm very tempted to get the box set.

I suppose this would be considered the stupid deal of the day! Where's that credit card.....
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Wildbill, at first I thought they were selling 11 cymbals in the box set. I was gonna say damn! But it's only a pair of hats, a ride and 2 crashes. I would just never trust box sets of cymbals. It seems like a marketing ploy/dumping ground for borderline sounding cymbals. You can't return just one individual cymbal in those sets. Maybe buy 7 or 8 box sets, and cherry pick the keepers, return the rest. Is that morally wrong?
 

Soupy

Silver Member
We're talking about modern machine made Zildjian cymbals. I have a feeling that they all sound about the same... Not purely identical, at least consistent enough that there won't be a true "dud" in there.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
We're talking about modern machine made Zildjian cymbals. I have a feeling that they all sound about the same... Not purely identical, at least consistent enough that there won't be a true "dud" in there.
From experience I find this totally wrong. Some are night and day differences and some are duds when mixed with others. I personally wouldn't buy a box set because I'm very particular with my sound. Others, just buy from the Internet, they all make noise.

Dennis
 

aaajn

Silver Member
I have been pining for a Z K, went to a great drum shop in a funky part of Portland, Maine and talked to an awesome guy in the shop. He gave me a great tutorial. I had always read and heard you can't buy a cymbal unheard but the great folks at NE Drum Shop gave me this great lesson. He said: Let me show you something and then went around to a few K's and clanged away. The difference was impressive.

I got my first set of A Customs from a box but didnt know enough to have an opinion. The best part about the Portland shop, sales guy said: IF you like a cymbal, take it off the wall and bring it to the practice room at the back and play it there, by itself.

If I buy, it will be from him.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Hmm. I stand corrected, the cheap price I found was for a slightly used set in the box. The usual going price new is $700. And actually, I only really need another pair of hats and a light ride, after careful consideration. But an entire new cymbal set is always a welcomed idea, eh?

I may comb through the used stock at Pro Drum first and see what I come up with. I might only spend $300 that way.
 
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