Paiste pst7 thoughts vs 2002

veecharlie

Senior Member
Guess what, another cymbal comparison, ha!
I was wondering what people thinks about the pst7. I have reader they are b20 and intended to be a cheap alternative to the 2002.

I went to a shop yesterday and have seen both 2002 and pst7, I can say there is a difference in the alloy mix, thickness and sound, but still, quite interesting. The sound of the pst7 is a bit more delicate than the 2002... overall nice cymbals for the money.
Thoughts?
 

Wave Deckel

Gold Member
Pst7 and 2002 are not B20 but B8 cymbals. And 2002 sound imo better than the Pst7 (which sound really cheap for my delicate ears). And most B20 cymbals sound way better than the 2002 imho (too bright, too harsh for my taste). But to each his own.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
Pst7 and 2002 are not B20 but B8 cymbals. And 2002 sound imo better than the Pst7 (which sound really cheap for my delicate ears). And most B20 cymbals sound way better than the 2002 imho (too bright, too harsh for my taste). But to each his own.
It's defenitivey NOT B8. The color is towards orange than the typical B8 yellow. I looked into Paiste's website, and actually I was wrong. It's not B20 but 2002 bronze. Weird.
My delicate ears also say the 2002 are better but I'm comparing quality vs price.. I prefer Sabian B20 bronze or Diril's brothers B20 (Istambul, Meinl Byzance, etc etc).


The cheaper PST's are from B8, that yes.
 

Woolwich

Silver Member
I'm no expert but the less expensive Paiste lines are, I believe, both. Because 2002 Bronze IS B8 Bronze. Perhaps there's something else in the alloy but as far as I'm aware at it's root it's B8. The sounds a cymbal makes also come from the shape, thickness, hammering, lathing etc so it's not simply a matter of lumping the qualities of a cymbal together based on what they're made of.

Edit. A look at the Paiste website page for the PST 8 range, "closer" to the 2002 on a budget, says that they are made of "CuSn8 Bronze, also known as 2002 Bronze". It's a long time since I sat my A level chemistry exam but Sn is the symbol for tin and I believe it's the tin component that gives the label to the Bronze. So something with Sn10 would be B10 Bronze, Sn20 would be B20. But I'm on dangerous ground here, I'm no chemist so I'd like an expert to step forward and take the heat please :)
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
I'm no expert but the less expensive Paiste lines are, I believe, both. Because 2002 Bronze IS B8 Bronze. Perhaps there's something else in the alloy but as far as I'm aware at it's root it's B8. The sounds a cymbal makes also come from the shape, thickness, hammering, lathing etc so it's not simply a matter of lumping the qualities of a cymbal together based on what they're made of.
Interesting. I tought they where no B8, because of the color, characteristic sound and lathering. At that point, I think they indeed mix some different alloy, otherwise they would sound exactly the same as the other brands B8's. Agree on also how is manufactured...
 
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Wave Deckel

Gold Member
2002 is CuSn8 Bronze, which is a slight variation of B8 Bronze (every cymbalmaker has its own recipe for bonze and they treat that as a secret. Sabian adds e.g. a bit of silver to many cymbals). And the difference in sound has a lot to do with

(roto)casting-process
shape
bow
bell
thickness
cooling the raw cymbals off
lathing
hammering technique and used hammers
etc.
etc.
it's a science in itself and small deviations here and there can have a very noticable impact on the sound. Thus the Pst7 can be made of the same Bronze but still sound really different.
 

crispycritters

Senior Member
I'm no expert but the less expensive Paiste lines are, I believe, both. Because 2002 Bronze IS B8 Bronze. Perhaps there's something else in the alloy but as far as I'm aware at it's root it's B8. The sounds a cymbal makes also come from the shape, thickness, hammering, lathing etc so it's not simply a matter of lumping the qualities of a cymbal together based on what they're made of.

Edit. A look at the Paiste website page for the PST 8 range, "closer" to the 2002 on a budget, says that they are made of "CuSn8 Bronze, also known as 2002 Bronze". It's a long time since I sat my A level chemistry exam but Sn is the symbol for tin and I believe it's the tin component that gives the label to the Bronze. So something with Sn10 would be B10 Bronze, Sn20 would be B20. But I'm on dangerous ground here, I'm no chemist so I'd like an expert to step forward and take the heat please :)
Cu = Copper, Sn = Tin

Paiste have a copywrite on the NAME CuSn8, or '2002' alloy - I'm not knocking Paiste or their products but I'm not drinking the cool aid of the mystery ingredients bull. My opinion is Paiste produce top quality, professional cymbals from B8 alloy due to workmanship and R&D not mystery ingredients/magic formulas

Mapex has the patented 'Soniclear bearing edge' - a type of bearing edge that has been used long before Mapex existed...
 

force3005

Silver Member
Hey Veecharlie, if you take a look in the store listen to the crashes of the PST7 (crash) and 2002 (classic). Now from what I hear, if you like the 16" 2002 you might look at the 17" PST7. If you also listen to both the 2002 & PST7 on Paiste web-site and like the 2002 sound, IMO will have to go up size in PST7 line in the crashes. The PST7 hats are nice a clean sounding the only thing is the rides are not the best sounding but make a good large crash.
 
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Living Dead Drummer

Platinum Member
I really don't care what a cymbal is made from. If it sounds good, it sounds good.

I currently use 2002's in the studio and on gigs that are "less aggressive".

A number of my students are using PST7s and PST5s right now and they sound great. By far the best of the "student model" cymbals on the market.
Even the PST5's are noticeably better than other options in that price range.
My students took note of the sound from the ZBT and B8s they were using before and said they liked the PST5 way better.
 

Wave Deckel

Gold Member
I don't want to be a party pooper, but give your students some Masterwork Troy or Istanbul Samatya cymbals - which are btw. cheaper than the Paistes - and they will probably want to trash their Pst5 or Pst7 cymbals. IMO those Paistes are really really a waste of money, just like almost every other cheapo-cymbal-set. Tinny sound, harsh, brutal "clang". Miles away from anything that I might want to take on stage or into a studio. For the same money, better look out for some used 2002, AA(X), HH(X), Zildjian A Custom, K custom and the like. Just my two cents.
 

force3005

Silver Member

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
Guess what, another cymbal comparison, ha!
I was wondering what people thinks about the pst7. I have reader they are b20 and intended to be a cheap alternative to the 2002.

I went to a shop yesterday and have seen both 2002 and pst7, I can say there is a difference in the alloy mix, thickness and sound, but still, quite interesting. The sound of the pst7 is a bit more delicate than the 2002... overall nice cymbals for the money.
Thoughts?
So which ones did you buy?

I figure I'll make the switch to Paiste when I have enough pocket change for a 22" Traditionals and some 17" Steve Jordan hats ;)
 

Steady Freddy

Pioneer Member
I have a set of 2002s and a set of Signatures. Love them both.

In the 2002 line I like the medium and power crashes more than the regular crash. Classic rock sound.
 

BertTheDrummer

Gold Member
I really don't care what a cymbal is made from. If it sounds good, it sounds good.
I agree. B8/CuSn8/2002 Bronze gets a bad rap due to the fact that is usually what budget cymbals are made from. Paiste and Meinl have been making great B8 cymbals that sound great for a while. Just get what you think sounds good.
 
No matter what ingredient/formula Paiste uses, IMO, NOBODY makes better B8 cymbals than they do. While most makers offer B8's, they all sound 'beginner grade'. Paiste B8's are very pro-level.

Their latest 900S are, IMO, superb for the money. Where else can one find a 22", NEW, ride for $256 that offers the quality and craftsmanship it does. The only other is the Agop/Xist lines, but they are B20.

Paiste offers many sleepers in cymbal offerings, IMO
 
I love the sound of my 2002 18 medium and 19 crash. The 14 sound edge hats are great as well. The 21 Twenty ride is by far my most favorite ride I've ever played. I think Paiste makes great cymbals no matter the line.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I think the PST 7 line compares pretty favorably to 2002. They aren't quite as nuanced and there's nowhere near the range of options, but they're well within the same ballpark for sure. No one will be selling off their 2002's to buy PST 7's, but if you want to try out that sound it is a great way to do it more economically. The lathing and hammering puts PST 7 miles beyond what mid-level cymbals used to sound like and shows how well Paiste knows how to make a B8 cymbal.
 

Wave Deckel

Gold Member
The lathing and hammering puts PST 7 miles beyond what mid-level cymbals used to sound like
As I said before, I disagree with such statements. There are cymbals from Turkey that don't cost more and that do have a much bigger dynamic range, lots of more warmth than those Paistes. In a direct compare I did years ago between Masterwork Troys and the PST7's, the Paistes clearly lost. So ... miles beyond.... I really beg to differ. Maybe they are better than Sabian B8 or Meinl Classics or Zildjian ZBT, but definitely not miles beyond many turkish made cymbals in that price range.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
As I said before, I disagree with such statements. There are cymbals from Turkey that don't cost more and that do have a much bigger dynamic range, lots of more warmth than those Paistes. In a direct compare I did years ago between Masterwork Troys and the PST7's, the Paistes clearly lost. So ... miles beyond.... I really beg to differ. Maybe they are better than Sabian B8 or Meinl Classics or Zildjian ZBT, but definitely not miles beyond many turkish made cymbals in that price range.
I think your comments in this thread have made it pretty clear you don't care for the tone of B8 alloy cymbals, but my comments aren't aimed to change your mind.

But I'm trying to offer my thoughts about how PST 7 and 2002 compare, as THAT is the topic at hand, not B8 vs. B20 or Turkish vs. European-style cymbals.
 

veecharlie

Senior Member
Hey Veecharlie, if you take a look in the store listen to the crashes of the PST7 (crash) and 2002 (classic). Now from what I hear, if you like the 16" 2002 you might look at the 17" PST7. If you also listen to both the 2002 & PST7 on Paiste web-site and like the 2002 sound, IMO will have to go up size in PST7 line in the crashes. The PST7 hats are nice a clean sounding the only thing is the rides are not the best sounding but make a good large crash.
yea my question came up exactly because I went to a store for a drumstick refill and I trolled out by trying all cymbals around lol
 
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