Have not seen any mention of these here. They appear to be a new line. I went cymbal shopping this weekend, and saw a set of these on a kit. I sat down and started laying into this 20" that was positioned as a ride. It has a light ride feel, with a pretty good bell, and an addictive crash-ability, especially when you are swinging. I immediately recognized it could take me new places, so I snatched it up. I guess they are 2002 material, but hammered to be darker, both sonically and aesthetically. Not sure what you would compare them to, but I really like what I got.