Overplaying? Or not.

Pachikara-Tharakan

Silver Member
That doesn't mean those parts are set in stone forever and ever, but it does mean they can't be improved upon.


Bermuda
... some of the stones song drumming can be different (or better , for me??) like adding more fills during Wild Horses, etc....I am not saying that the recorded version is dull, but thats how they wanted me to hear , but when i play along, i add more fills , the way i want to hear, may be I could be the only one who likes more fills, if there is one more person who agrees with me, then i am glad :)
 

Spreggy

Silver Member
If Keith Moon were alive he would have shown how to play "differently" on any songs, even their own studio recorded ones....i am curious to see how "differently" or Keith Moonish any one can play "Eminence Front" from Its hard album...
Great example. There is fair room for interpretation there though. Ghost notes in the groove, embellishment of the fills, etc. The important thing is to make sure you are true to the song or true to the new vision of the song, whichever you're doing. You don't have to say the same thing to say the right thing. You can nail it without carbon copying.

Here's a re-vamped cover/ complete overhaul that I've been digging by Dirty Loops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsqh9jHkHlM&feature=related
 

Anduin

Pioneer Member
My take is play it as close to the original as possible. If you were copying the Mona Lisa, would you make her cross eyed?
That’s an interesting example because, as we all know, there are waaaaaaaaaay more copies of the Mona Lisa than there are originals. People keep reinterpreting it and reinterpreting it. You always know it’s based on the Mona Lisa, but you also know that the reinterpretation took some thought and imagination. Many people have taking that classic and given it a new twist while keeping it highly identifiable.

mona lisa 1.jpgmona lisa 2.jpgmona lisa 3.jpgmona lisa 4.jpg

How about the song “Hallelujah” by Leonard Cohen. Heard K.D. Lang’s version? It’s freaking amazing! Now imaging Lang just coping Cohen’s singing style: dull, boring, and a complete waste of her talent.

As for drumming, do you think Stewart Copeland has ever played a song the same way twice? Not bloody likely. How about Todd Sucherman? He plays Styx tunes, but does he copy the original drum parts? No. He takes their essence and then makes them his own. And his bandmates--the guys who wrote the tunes--think he’s great!
 
A

Anthony Amodeo

Guest
How about the song “Hallelujah” by Leonard Cohen. Heard K.D. Lang’s version? It’s freaking amazing! Now imaging Lang just coping Cohen’s singing style: dull, boring, and a complete waste of her talent.
Jeff Buckleys version is the best I've heard
 

Pachikara-Tharakan

Silver Member
Charley Watts plays completely differently when "You cant always get what you want" played live. May be because he doesn't like the studio recorded original Jimmy Miller version, but the original version is more "spicy" than his usual dead beats , for me.....
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
I was not suggesting playing every song as written, that, to me, would be boring and lack imagination...
???... Mikel, do you really mean this? That's not saying much about the original drummer and his drum parts, lol...

... I think is a challenge to actually reproduce the original drum parts, that providing I'm capable of doing it, some of these "easy drum parts" are quite difficult to play to make them feel right.

...After all, the parts we hear on recordings are what the artist, producer, label, and presumably the drummer want us to hear. Limited vocabulary or not, it's those parts that make a song what it is, and worth playing by other bands, and worth hearing by the audience...
Exactly, agree 100%, but very often that's the very problem for many drummers, how to reproduce the feel of these drummers? many drummers, including myself, could really struggle to do a copycat of the original, you Jon, know this better than anyone here, it is hard and difficult to play those parts as per the originals, so the easy way out is to make your own version of a particular groove.

...Does anyone here actually believe they can improve Ringo's parts on Beatles songs? Charlie Watts? Bonham? Ginger Baker? Jeff Porcaro? Jim Keltner? Jim Gordon? Or countless other drummers whose parts are already deemed correct by everyone involved in creating those recordings?
Lol... no, I don't feel I can improve on any of the parts of the drummers you mentioned, it's hard enough to do them justice IMO :)

But there's "covers" and "covers", if it's a different arrangement than the original by the whole band, then yes, the drummer can play different grooves, different feels and add a few fills or embellishment here and there, Andy's "Fired Up" and Grea's "Blue Mabels" are perfect exemples of doing covers your own way, but if the band play the tune as per the original version as suggested by Mikel for the SNA song, the drummer should stick to the original patterns and play for the song.

Drummers who feel that doing drum parts covers are boring and a lack of imagination should play in bands who write their own material, then, they can create their own grooves and patterns.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Charley Watts plays completely differently when "You cant always get what you want" played live. May be because he doesn't like the studio recorded original Jimmy Miller version, but the original version is more "spicy" than his usual dead beats , for me.....
That's the original drummer/band's prerogative to change their parts. I feel it's presumptuous for someone else to do it, unless they're completely re-interpreting the song. I just don't want to hear poor versions of songs because the players are either too lazy to work-up imaginative parts, or they overplay without any regard for making the song enjoyable, and then defend it by saying they've made it their own.

Just doing what you feel like doing doesn't necessarily result in something that people want to hear. There's judgement required when tackling songs - covers or originals - and those players with the best judgement are the most respected, and likely to enjoy longevity at what they do.

Bermuda
 

larryz

Platinum Member
Jeff Buckleys version is the best I've heard
And my singer/fiancee's version of Hallelujah does kd lang one better. I am so lucky..
And I've been 15 ft from kd lang when she's done it live.

But I'm of the opinion to keep drumming close to the original or "in the spriit of" the original. Maybe a teeny bit of your flavor is ok, but nothing much.
 

mikel

Platinum Member
Originally Posted by mikel
I was not suggesting playing every song as written, that, to me, would be boring and lack imagination...
???... Mikel, do you really mean this? That's not saying much about the original drummer and his drum parts, lol...

... I think is a challenge to actually reproduce the original drum parts, that providing I'm capable of doing it, some of these "easy drum parts" are quite difficult to play to make them feel right.

Don't get me wrong Mad. I was not dissing the original musicians, I was talking from a personal point of view. As I say I feel there are some songs where the drum part is Iconic, so I play it as such.

What I chose to play in a song, when I do depart from the recording, might well be much simpler than the original. Sometimes the song just suggests something to me. If I thought for one minute what I wanted to play in a song detracted in any way from the whole, I would not do it.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
All comes down to who(m) is paying/tasked with making the decisions.

Their decision is absolute and not open for debate unless it is invited.

..the door is always open for the disatisfied musician to use.



PS

Just say no to cover bands.

Play your songs...the world will be a better place for it.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Andy's "Fired Up" and Grea's "Blue Mabels" are perfect exemples of doing covers your own way,
I think you'd struggle to find two acts more spectrum separated than Grea's & mine, but that's the point, & what's so much fun about messing with interpretation. If what you do is welcomed by your fellow musicians, you're not short of work offers, & the audiences keep coming, then you must be doing something right.
 

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Aeolian

Platinum Member
One way to approach it is to consider what would that band do in a live performance? Or if you have been able to see them live, or have access to a live recording, what do they do? How much further do they take in in the interest of elevating the energy for a live performance? That sets the region of the upper limit for me in terms of "over playing". e.g. Earth Wind and Fire was famous for playing things faster and stretching them out into long jams. Someone like James Taylor may reinterpret a tune but typically plays pretty much the original tempo.

I actually enjoy the challenge of shifting gears and trying to adopt the vibe or character of the original player. That is what makes it interesting for me. Maybe not transcribing and playing every lick note for note, but copping the feel. Sly & the Family Stone? Try to get Greg Errico's way on top of the beat hi-hat ride. Stones?, loosen it up but keep the back beat, Bill Withers?, try to get Gadson's loose pulsing ride feel. And so on. That makes the song feel familiar and comfortable to people. Much more than playing an exact transcription of the notes right down the middle. And I think that assimilating all those different styles makes you a better musician.
 
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