Our own worst enemies

synergy

Senior Member
This post is a response to one that Jay posted a week or so ago. That one was about a great player he knew that had a kit that was basically held together with duct tape. however he still made it sing and now he is moving to NY I think.

I was looking at my bass player last night at our practice and I was so jealous- he has a guitar, an amp and a lead. Thats it!

I am fortunate I feel to have a good kit - I would like a couple of additions and a few better cymbals but on the whole I feel lucky.

I read a lot of posts about people wanting more stuff- they have 12 cymbals but just cant resist that new cymbal etc etc etc.

Guitarists for the most part are on a par with drummers I feel with effects pedals et all and Maybe keyboard players- I have never seen a pro keyboard player that does not seem to have about 6 keyboards around them on top of each other.

My point here was are we the ones to blame for 'wanting' all this equipment of have we been suckered in by the corporations and Ad-men that tell us that we need all this extra crap?

Just wondering if there is another group of musicians that seemed to be consumed about gear as much as drummers?
 

boombopper

Junior Member
With us dirty stinkin drummers, we are always looking for challenge and variety. A 5-piece kit with 4 cymbals should be enough for anyone but for some reason, we (or maybe I'm just thinking of myself here) think that adding some roto toms, a darbuka and one of those hanging spiral cymbals that Zil makes will be that "extra something" that will set us apart from the crowd. Hell, why not add a clave block or two and don't forget the Factory Metal Cross Crasherz!!!!! Damn it, I need more cowbell!!!!!! In fact, I need an entire set of cowbells. And everybody knows that one china cymbal isn't enough! You need a RANGE of chinas from nearly microscopic in size to 24 feet in diameter! Now we're talkin! I need to get a bigger van. Maybe a Winnebago.

In all seriousness, though, maybe we need to address the issues of challenge and variety by perfecting technique. Also, I've found that interjecting a bit of variety can be done cost-effectively with just a few minimal purchases. For example, get a double bass pedal. That's a $300 way to persue a completely different style that will keep a drummer busy for quite some time! That's a freakin deal! Furthermore, it's not a whole lot of extra gear to carry around. Also, a set of roto toms isn't a bad idea. It's nice to have a higher-pitched option for fills and accents. And maybe the clave blocks aren't a bad idea either. Christ. Listen to me. I've got problems!
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Out there in the real world, guys who make a living playing jazz in clubs do not have 8-12 grand to lay down for a custom kit.:) (And if they do, they certainly don't bring it into the clubs.)

I saw Marko Marcinko with Dave Liebman play the hell out of a Yamama Tour Custom. Paul Motian plays those natural Gretsch Renown drums, can't be too expensive. I think one of his cymbals is cracked too. Most guys use a good mid-range kit.

I have an M Birch kit and I think it is better than any kit I had back in the day, and costs less. I good mid-range kit with nice heads can sound really nice, if you tune it correctly and oh yeah, know how to play it.
 
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Vipercussionist

Silver Member
This post is a response to one that Jay posted a week or so ago. That one was about a great player he knew that had a kit that was basically held together with duct tape. however he still made it sing and now he is moving to NY I think.

I was looking at my bass player last night at our practice and I was so jealous- he has a guitar, an amp and a lead. Thats it!

I am fortunate I feel to have a good kit - I would like a couple of additions and a few better cymbals but on the whole I feel lucky.

I read a lot of posts about people wanting more stuff- they have 12 cymbals but just cant resist that new cymbal etc etc etc.

Guitarists for the most part are on a par with drummers I feel with effects pedals et all and Maybe keyboard players- I have never seen a pro keyboard player that does not seem to have about 6 keyboards around them on top of each other.

My point here was are we the ones to blame for 'wanting' all this equipment of have we been suckered in by the corporations and Ad-men that tell us that we need all this extra crap?

Just wondering if there is another group of musicians that seemed to be consumed about gear as much as drummers?
I'm a gear head, always "putting together" another kit. But my guitar player is a gear head too, he's got scads of cool guitars and amps and guitar gizmo's.

It's a disease and the only cure is More COWBELL! L0L!!
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Most respect the badge, but all fear the drum.
 

drumhead61

Gold Member
We are not the only ones with the gear issues...I went to college with plenty of guys who had to have more guitars and their related toys as well as horn players wanting more than one...as one said earlier...its a disease. We are all infected!!!!
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
We are not the only ones with the gear issues...I went to college with plenty of guys who had to have more guitars and their related toys as well as horn players wanting more than one...as one said earlier...its a disease. We are all infected!!!!
I have a general instrument problem. It's not just guitars, but I have a collection of the weird and (occasionally) wonderful. Part of me at one point last term liked the look of the Baritone Sax, but fortunately sense prevailed...
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
This post is a response to one that Jay posted a week or so ago. That one was about a great player he knew that had a kit that was basically held together with duct tape. however he still made it sing and now he is moving to NY I think.

I was looking at my bass player last night at our practice and I was so jealous- he has a guitar, an amp and a lead. Thats it!

I am fortunate I feel to have a good kit - I would like a couple of additions and a few better cymbals but on the whole I feel lucky.

I read a lot of posts about people wanting more stuff- they have 12 cymbals but just cant resist that new cymbal etc etc etc.

Guitarists for the most part are on a par with drummers I feel with effects pedals et all and Maybe keyboard players- I have never seen a pro keyboard player that does not seem to have about 6 keyboards around them on top of each other.

My point here was are we the ones to blame for 'wanting' all this equipment of have we been suckered in by the corporations and Ad-men that tell us that we need all this extra crap?
It's interesting you should say that about your bass player because i used to be the bass player in a band and i was on this bass forum and it's just incredible the stuff you can get, power outputs of 1500-2000w from one head, rackmounted FX, speaker cabinets with 8x10 speakers or 2x15" speakers or maybe just one 21" speaker. My dream bass amp cost well over £1000 and 4 10" speakers which were orange! And the basses, don't get me started. Some people had basses worth upwards of £4000. One guy owned 40 different basses. One guy owned 3 ampeg bass amps, a total of 24 10" speakers.

One guy on the forum, however when i showed him my drumkit pictures said that he could hardly believe that his drummer's ride cymbal cost more than his bass!

What i'm trying to say is that with all different instruments you get very expensive stuff because people buy expensive stuff. But you also get those who don't feel such a need. Or just can't afford it. In fact it's not just musicians either. Practically every activity from fishing to rally driving has it's own set of products and the associated expenses. And of course you're always gonna get big companies making big expensive stuff and making it look like people need it. Of course you are going to get people who don't really need it or know how to use it as well as spoilt little kids who have been playing for 2 months and want "daddy" to buy a £5000 gibson tom delonge guitar just so he can hang it on his wall.

To answer your question i think there is a bit of both elements here. Obviously people get duped into buying stuff because it's shiny (as i have mentioned in other threads about the Zildjian ZXT titanium) or it's well advertised but it's also about what you want in life, not just about what drums you want but also how you are going to make your money. There are people who live on £90 a week as a musician and love it because it's what they want to do. There are others who spend almost all their money on their drums. Some people on the other hand make a lot of money and are very good at drumming but just have a 4 piece kit with 3 cymbals (4 if we want to call the hihat 2) because they don't need any more.
For the most part, however, i would say that people by nature just want the best that they can get (just look at the credit crunch). Whether that's to do with advertising or just because that's what people want is a topic for debate but i would say advertising probably has a huge effect on most people, even just a nice photo can make someone want to buy something. I'm not saying by any means we should go communist and not buy any nice drum gear but just don't let the pretty pictures and hyperbole catch you out.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
And there's always an excuse. My excuse is that I need a short-scale bass as well as my normal one because I have smaller hands than most. I can attest to a short-scale working for me as well, because I've played a couple. And I want a nice Telecaster and a Jazzmaster, possibly an SG and a 12-string and another acoustic 'for alternate tunings'.

There's always another excuse, isn't there?
 

caddywumpus

Platinum Member
Man, I'm not even going to try to justify all of the drum stuff that I have. I used to try, saying, "well, THESE cymbals and THIS snare work for such and such a gig, and THESE cymbals with THIS kit work well for this application, and THESE...". I'll admit, I'm still a gear-head. I love to go to the used shops and try out a bunch of cymbals and snares to see if any of them float my drumming boat, but I know that I have way more than I need. As a drummer who enjoys the wide palate of sounds that you can get out of drums and cymbals, I like having lots of sounds available. Often times, I'll buy a snare or cymbal (used, of course--read my signature) that I've been wanting to try out and play around with it for a while. Then, I'll turn it around and sell it for what I paid for it, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.

Unfortunately, I'm this way with other instruments, too. I have a few guitars that I use for different sounds, a few amps, a few cowbells, some woodblocks, a few triangles, etc... I'm very picky about the timbre of the sounds that I'm producing when making music. I wish I could get away with being happy with a simple representation of the desired sound, but my personal convictions won't let me if I know that I could make a sound that is more pleasing or expressive of the tune's particular mood...
 

Guz2

Senior Member
John-Entwistle-a.jpg
Fender Precision Bass (sunburst, refinished to white in 1965)
Epiphone Rivoli semi-acoustic bass (sunburst)
Gibson EB-2 semi-acoustic bass (natural)
Mosrite Ventures Bass
Danelectro long-horn bass
Fender Jazz Bass (sunburst)
Rickenbacker 4001S bass
Gretsch 6070 Hollow Body Bass
Gibson EB-3 bass
Fender Bass VI
Vox Cougar Sidewinder IV V272 bass in a burgundy-grain finish
* Custom “Axe” Jazz bass
Custom-made “Spider” bass
Fender Precision Bass (slab body) in Olympic White, with maple neck
Sunburst Fender Precision Bass with rosewood fretboard and tortise shell pickguard
“Frankenstein” Fender Precision Bass with maple neck (made from several different Fender basses, and Entwistle's main stage and studio bass from 1967-1971)
Vox Violin Bass
Fender Precision Bass with rosewood fingerboard (black)
Rickenbacker 4005 hollow body bass
Gibson Thunderbird IV bass (both "Reverse" and "Non-Reverse"-styles)
"Fenderbird" basses (consisted of Gibson Thunderbird bodies (mostly "non-reverse" styles) and maple Fender Precision bass necks)
Rickenbacker 4005LS "Lightshow" hollow body bass
Alembic Series I basses
Fender “Explorer-Bird” (studio only)
Rickenbacker 4001 prototype 8-string bass (white)
Alembic Explorer bass
Custom Peter Cook “Lightning Bolt” bass
Modulus Buzzard graphite basses
Warwick custom Buzzard JE
Alembic Spyder Bass
Status Graphite JE Buzzard Bass
Warwick (bass guitar) Buzzard LTD 2003
Warwick (bass guitar) Cruiser bass (2005)

But he's Bass God. He deserved all that stuff
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
The Epiphone Rivoli is the only bass I've ever played and felt like a God playing. A friend of mine owns a very early Gibson Epiphone (before they were a 'budget' line) from the 60's (pretty sure it's the limited-run '61) and it is the sweetest bass I've ever played. It's just phenomenal. Short scale, the perfect neck and such a sweet, sweet sound; despite the lack of tonal options. It also has a passive bass boost which I refer to as the 'filth switch'. Fortunately he feels the same way about my acoustic guitar, so we're even there at least.

This is in reference to Entwistle owning one.
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
And there's always an excuse. My excuse is that I need a short-scale bass as well as my normal one because I have smaller hands than most. I can attest to a short-scale working for me as well, because I've played a couple. And I want a nice Telecaster and a Jazzmaster, possibly an SG and a 12-string and another acoustic 'for alternate tunings'.

There's always another excuse, isn't there?
I have small hands too but i play a 5 - string bass. At the end of the day it's all to do with the player.
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
I have small hands too but i play a 5 - string bass. At the end of the day it's all to do with the player.
Oh I can play a 4-5 string fine. I have tried a 6 string and didn't like that at all. But I don't always feel entirely comfortable playing a full scale length. I must admit, playing the intro to 'Red' by King Crimson gets mightily uncomfortable. Nasty bass chords.
 

synergy

Senior Member
I think I was just wondering what is the bare basics you need to drum- bass snare and hats?

I know if I had a kit with 30 toms and 60 cymbals Steve G could still groove all over me with a tupperware container and a stick-

So that got me wondering- I understand there will always be different people with different outlooks in life- some will always want the bes they can, others will have to make do and use duct tape etc.

I just wondered if anyone else thought that some of these companies feed into a 'crutch' mentality - telling people they will be better if they only have this new cymbal lathing technique etc etc.

I know if I go out and buy a $900 cymbal pack- it will not make me a $900 better drummer.

Also every drum shop I have ever been in - the extra's or add ons area are always 6 times the size of the just the basic sets areas
 

Ferret

Senior Member
I play with a pretty big kit, but that doesn't stop me from using African hand drum technique on the counter at work because its nice and holy, making it pick up all the dynamics and accents you throw in there. It all comes down to the player and how you think about playing, yes I play with an 8 pc kit with all top line zildjian cymbals, that I picked out because they sounded the best to me by ear. But I get by with my pad and sticks in the break room, and any miscellaneous glasses of water, cookie tins, plastic wrappers under my feet, table edges, and rubber chair arms that find themselves at hand...

(My coworkers that aren't musicians hate me.)
 

eddiehimself

Platinum Member
Oh I can play a 4-5 string fine. I have tried a 6 string and didn't like that at all. But I don't always feel entirely comfortable playing a full scale length. I must admit, playing the intro to 'Red' by King Crimson gets mightily uncomfortable. Nasty bass chords.
So practice. I'm not saying you shouldn't buy a short scale just don't pretend that you couldn't play a full scale bass if you tried. Because i certainly can play all manner of powerchords, plus i try to play any songs from standard to drop B tuning without retuning even if it's in drop tuning which is quite challenging but fun. How small are your actual hands? Because my middle finger is 3.5 inches long. I remember some woman complaining about playing a 5 string because she had the same size fingers.


I know if I go out and buy a $900 cymbal pack- it will not make me a $900 better drummer.
Well yeah i guess if you used the guitar hero measure of how much money you get being based on how well you play then no you definetly would not.

Having said this my opinion has always been that how good you are at drumming is never about how good or bad your kit is but how much you actually want to play and improve your skills. So maybe some people will have a bigger desire to learn if they have a decent kit.
 
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diosdude

Silver Member
Everyone should have priorities. If your bills are paid, if you're out of debt, no harm done by buying stuff. I say from a fiscal standpoint, buy used, pay only what you could get back by selling it or you're losing to depreciation (no brainer). If you lose by buying, THEN you're your own worst enemy.

But then again, who is richer? The man who has everything or the man who needs nothing?
 
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Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
I'm perfectly happy playing a 4 or 5-string, I just feel more comfortable on a shorter scale 4 or 5-string. It's like how my Strat feels completely different to my other electric; smaller neck makes it different to play. Without getting the ruler out, my hands are in fact smaller than most people I know and that includes the ladies. So pretty small.
 
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