If he is 19 then he is an adult, not a child, that puts a completely different slant on the whole thing. I was not taking a pop, just being a big mouth, as usual.Mikel,
Bo is correct the boy is in college. He plays because that's what is in him. It's in every breath he takes. It's more then a love of playing. It's who he is. He is 1,000,000 times more intense about it then most people will ever be including myself. At 19, he and his school colleagues play at a level most of us couldn't dream of. He is chasing greatness.
Sorry if it comes off as being pushy sporting parents that's not even close to what this is. It's very hard to understand for people not familiar with conservatory situations.
As for the agreement we have, it is in jest as this child eats, sleeps and breathes the percussion world.
I think it's novel that we still use a measure of time to determine the maturity of another person. Silly humans.If he is 19 then he is an adult, not a child, that puts a completely different slant on the whole thing. I was not taking a pop, just being a big mouth, as usual.
But that's how it is. On the one hand, if it's your kid, and he's just not growing up yet, you forgive that and hope they get along like they're supposed to. But if I'm the adult watching stupid kids do what stupid kids do, then I'm frustrated that the rest of us have to deal with somebody being "only a lad". We often say things like "when is that guy going to grow up?"
I was talking legaly not emotionaly. I am 63 and still dont considder myself a "grown up". In Britain you can vote at 18, I wont even begin to describe what might happen if voting was "maturity" tested.
If you are paying someone to teach you then there is a huge difference between them being honest and being abusive.If someone is teaching me drums I expect them to be completely blunt and honest about my drum playing.
I don't expect them to attack my character or make judgments about what kind of person I am based on my playing. If I'm not working as hard as I should at a lesson, then by all means say so. But don't assume I am lazy and don't want to do the lesson...maybe other things in my life have priorities. That is a really fine distinction which some teachers are unable to make.
If, of course, you equate criticism of your playing with criticism of yourself, well, I am not sure how you learn. I'm not on your planet.
As I say, everyone is different and finds motivation, or is motivated, in different ways. There will be masochists who thrive on being verbaly abused, and worse, but very few I would guess.What I like most about Whiplash is it has generated conversations like this about drums and teaching. Even if you hate the movie, I think this stuff is interesting to talk about.
I just have trouble believing there is a single correct approach to teaching. I'd like to see some studies that try to correlate results with different styles of teaching. I'm sure they exist, I just haven't bothered to look for them.
Without knowing the answer, I would speculate that different styles work with different students. Some might respond to a soft approach while others might need a harder kick in the ass.
The argument Fletcher makes in the movie that greats won't become great without being beaten into achieving it seems like it might apply to some, but not all. I think some people are so self-motivated to become great that such an approach isn't necessary at all, they just need a road map on how to get there, without the boot camp part.
Not so. I was an apprentice back in the late 60s, in a factory, the old 10,000 hours tradesman. The people were fantastic. You had to grow up fast but I was never more nurtured and helped, by both my tradesman/mentor and the toolroom manager. My abiding memories of the 5 years are of constant laughs and great jokes. The work had to be done but its done better if you enjoy it. Wonderfull times.I had a similar experience at the conservatory I attended... not as harsh as whiplash, but it wasn't all hand-holding and love either.
My first ensemble, the professor gave us his own arrangement of a Cole Porter trunk song (Everything I Love) which was in 7/4.
All the players had just met and were of varying skill levels. We didn't even make it out of the A section before we stopped and each of us got ripped apart. I distinctly remember the teacher telling the pano player he played like a "See You Next Tuesday".
By the end of that semester, we'd all learned so much and were really tight. And we the teacher began to warm up to us. I think he even told me once that my solo "wasn't bad at all".
Fast forward to working as a gigging musician, and I've had to deal with the same sorts of issues with band leaders.
Being a musician is just like any trade (carpentry, plumbing, et cetera) we learn through the apprenticeship model, and then get cut loose and have to make it on our own out in the world. If you don't have thick skin, you won't last very long.
Bottomline is that it might be harsh, but it prepares you for the realities of being a musician. It's enormous fun, but it's a cutthroat world, and it's highly competitive. You don't want to end up completely bitter and jaded, but you do need to form some callouses.
I would almost argue that your situation is not the same thing as going out to land a spot in the Stan Kenton Orchestra, however. Or, dare I say, a spot with a big entertainment corporation where hundreds show up for a crack at getting one of three positions. Or is it?Not so. I was an apprentice back in the late 60s, in a factory, the old 10,000 hours tradesman. The people were fantastic. You had to grow up fast but I was never more nurtured and helped, by both my tradesman/mentor and the toolroom manager. My abiding memories of the 5 years are of constant laughs and great jokes. The work had to be done but its done better if you enjoy it. Wonderfull times.
I was just responding to a post comparing the conservatory experienc to an apprenticeship. Thats all. I served the old apprenticeship and was not brutalised by it to "Grow up" or get tough. You tend to toughen up as you mature anyway and lose your innocence.I would almost argue that your situation is not the same thing as going out to land a spot in the Stan Kenton Orchestra, however. Or, dare I say, a spot with a big entertainment corporation where hundreds show up for a crack at getting one of three positions. Or is it?
I guess I've always compared the musician part to the apprentice model, not necessarily the conservatory part.I was just responding to a post comparing the conservatory experienc to an apprenticeship.