Why the sudden jazzer bashing?
If some posters on this forum managed to shy you away from Elvin with Coltrane (if you loved it before that is), maybe the problem lies on your side, if I dare ask....?
No no, it's cool. Actually, I never took a strong liking to much of the Elvin or Tony stuff, but I recognized the quality of the drumming and playing so I was dismissive of my own lack of taste for the whole of it. I was in denial about the music itself.
Now, in light of some consistent and common 'worldviews' I've been noticing from many jazz players around here and elsewhere, I've noticed a shift in my own opinion that the jazz aesthetic is more of an exclusive club than anything innovative and groundbreaking. It's just a vehicle for showcasing one's overdeveloped chops.
So today while trying to listen to Coltrane, I just thought, "You know what? I really don't like this kind of music. I don't like that the melodies are so random and non-repeating. I don't like the sound of the instruments, and whole thing lack cohesion, the endless noodling... and I'm turning it off as fast as I can!"
Yesterday I watched the Chick Corea with Jeff Ballard video and it left me not just cold, but almost sad. It's like a religion I don't want any part of. Back in the '80s, I used to listen to Chick Corea’s Electric Band because of the young hotshot drummer he had playing with him. And what was I reading just the other day somewhere in this forum? That someone was claiming that Weckl wasn’t a jazz drummer! Stunning. If he’s not good enough or pure enough for jazz, then I don't want any part of jazz.
I think jazz went over the cliff after the big band era, myself.
My attitude shift hasn't really been that sudden, it's just that the opinions towards music and other musicians has been brought into sharper relief. I'm seeing that many (or most) of these people recognize that their years of hard study makes them "better players" than most, but have absolutely no appreciation for (what I consider) clever songwriting of a typical Lennon/McCarteney collaboration, for example – unless they wanted to steal a section and make a ridiculous jam out of it. As Steamer has pointed out more than once: it's not the form that's important, it's what takes place in the form.
I just could not disagree with that more strongly. To me, form is EVERYTHING.
Maybe similar is the case with some of you guys who were (or are) very much into Peart or Copeland and, more importantly, in their respective bands? I know they had and have a great influence on many other drummers and can therefore be looked at as important drummers who have invented some creative things. But if one was never really into the Police or into Rush, they seem less important than others.
By the way, did you see Neil Peart with the Buddy Rich big band at his memorial concert (also including Colaiuta, Chambers, Weckl and so on)? He didn't quite fit the style, did he?
That’s very true, I think. Those two drummers (Copeland and Peart) played the soundtrack to my first years of drumming. Music is contextual – you have to be in the moment with it. I wasn’t born early enough to get into the many bands of the ‘60s that had such great influence. Even Led Zeppelin never captured my fancy. I remember growing up not liking John Bonham. I didn’t like his lazy feel and something about that band in general felt stale to me. Perhaps it was their over use of blues? I don’t know. I know I came to appreciate Bonhams drumming only years later, but I still don’t own an Zeppelin CDs.
I’m fascinated how many people on drum forums in general use his picture as their avatar and have some bonzo-themed username. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but I never would have predicted it as a kid in the ‘80s.
Yes, I did see the Peart videos with the Buddy Rich Orchestra. Yes, it was hard to watch. The swing is just not in his DNA. But as he says, he is very linear in everything he does, and it’s that inflexible sweetness in his time that made him such a standout in the context of Rush.
I know he gets roundly criticized for his rigid groove, but that’s exactly what I find so appealing about his playing. Alan White has that thing, too. So did the guy from The Cars. So have a lot of drummers. It can be used to great effect.
Did you ever hear him and Steve Smith drumming together with Jeff Berlin. Talk about a study in contrasts! It worked so well, too.
It’s too bad some jazz people focus so much on what he can’t do and not take the time to see what it is that he does really well. More often you hear, “Oh that’s not remarkable at all, I could do that…” But it’s not whether you could copy him (or anyone else’s compositions), it’s whether you could have thought of something as compelling given the same opportunity to compose it yourself. I’d hate to hear the jazz drummer version of Limelight!