NPD Czarcie Kopyto Double

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
My latest acquisition! A Czarcie Kopyto double bass drum pedal.












Looking at the pedal, there are a lot of similarities with the Trick Pro-1V Bigfoot I already own. For example, you can change the pedal setting for more power or more speed or an in between setting. Also, you can move the drum clamp backwards and forwards on both. The connecting rod for the double bass is "inspired" by the Trick as are the beaters.

But there are also a lot of differences. The Bigfoot footboard is about an inch longer but the Czarcie is wider. The clamping system on the Czarcie Kopyto is a spring loaded screw on type and it also has the ability to change the throw of the beater.

Also, while the Trick is a compression spring pedal, the Czarcie is a traditional expansion spring design. The Trick method for changing tension is excellent, but the Czarcie's is kind of cool too. Set and forget.

Playing wise, there's even more difference. Whereas the Trick is a pedal with a light feel, the Czarcie has a very heavy feel to it. Nothing to do with speed, just the feel: I think the expansion vs compression spring modus operandi adds to the difference.

I'm really digging it! A really great pedal, I think it's a better feel for me than the Tricks, which always used to get away from under me. I always preferred ICs to the Pearl Eliminator, this is something in that vein. (EDIT: I should note that while previously comparing the Trick to the Axis AL-2, I used the same analogy. In that sense it is sort of IC:Eliminator is like Trick:Czarcie). I guess I just like heavier pedals.

I'll put up a detailed review when I have spent a reasonable amount of time with it. For now, enjoy the pedal pron!
 
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beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
Jealous. Never tried one of these. Excited for your full review... You should compare AL-2 to the tricks to these. As someone who owns AL2's, A21's and Demon Drives I am always curious. haha
 

K Chez

Member
That is some ambitious machine work and really though out design. Looks awesome and I'm sure it plays incredible, I can't imagine that there isn't a way to adjust it to get exactly what you want out of it.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
That's a good looking pedal. It needs to go on a diet, but still a good looking pedal.

I dig the case. It looks big and tough just like the pedal.
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
There are no heavy or light pedals. There is only right or wrong adjustment. In extreme cases, it is the spring.
I disagree. More mass to a footboard is one way that a pedal can feel heavy as compared to another. I am not referring to speed or how quick the pedal moves.
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
That's a good looking pedal. It needs to go on a diet, but still a good looking pedal.

I dig the case. It looks big and tough just like the pedal.
Yes, I'm very glad it comes with a case. It's really heavy with the pedals inside and you can keep all your tools for adjustment in it as well.

One of the cool things about the pedals is that plate on the bottom is magnetic, so you can just stick your drum key to it.

Another thing I liked is that the foam in the case already has cut outs for a certain kind of drum trigger that is designed for the pedal. Probably spring for that somewhere down the line.
 

mrfingers

Senior Member
Wow! So, where are the springs and do you have to remove the electric motor to get at them? Just joking...
 

Skilas

Member
I disagree. More mass to a footboard is one way that a pedal can feel heavy as compared to another. I am not referring to speed or how quick the pedal moves.
The weight of the footboard has nothing to do with the feeling. As I said, it's all a question of the right or wrong adjustment.
 

Dodgy Foreigner

Junior Member
I took delivery of mine a few months ago. A bit of a leap of faith buying them without trying them... but it was worth it. Couldn't be happier!!
 
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Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
The weight of the footboard has nothing to do with the feeling. As I said, it's all a question of the right or wrong adjustment.
If that was the case, an Iron Cobra could feel like a Pearl Eliminator?

I don't think that's possible at all. If you believe it is, more power to you, but I know a tonne of drummers on this site alone who will disagree with you.
 
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Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
Here's Part One of my detailed review.

BUILD QUALITY:
Everything is machined aluminium and it looks like it's made to very high tolerances. Seamless, very sturdy. All the joints are tightly fitted and all screws are fixed with threaded inserts.

These are very heavy pedals. Just to give you an idea of the weight, the Trick Pro 1V I still own has a shipping weight of 15 pounds, or about 6.8kg, according to Amazon. According to the Czarcie Kopyto website, on the other hand, the pedals alone weigh 12kg. That's almost double.

I'm a bit unsure if the weight difference is actually that much, but it definitely is a far beefier pedal. The boards are wider and they seem to be thicker as well. The post seems to be solid, unlike the Trick, which is hollowed out for their clever spring design, and all the parts seem to be much beefier in general.

Comparing the two pedals side by side, the CK dwarfs the Trick, it's just much bigger design wise. Bigger isn't necessarily better, but at least in terms of build quality, I am quite happy with how solid these pedals are. One big difference is that the CKs have ball bearings in the heel, which at least on paper, should make for a smoother stroke.

The spring mechanism is also quite cool. To adjust your tension, you have to push down on this spring activated block that is on each post. This can be pretty tough, since at higher tensions, you have to press down quite hard to move the block and then turn the little wheel at the bottom clockwise or anti-clockwise to raise or lower tension.

The connecting bar is amazing. Looks just like the Trick and is likely to be a "borrowed design". Very smooth and I could notice no lag between the master and slave pedals.

A really cool thing is how unlike the Tricks, the markings on the pedal aren't painted on, They're actually machined in the appropriate areas.

The beaters are one of my favourite things about the pedals. They are quite heavy, heavier than the Detonator beaters that came with the Trick. That could be because they are much bigger, which makes for a bigger contact area when you hit the head.

My pedals have the Czarcie Kopyto devil engraved on them, but for an upcharge, you can get the pedals with your own design on the footboards or no design at all.

Another cool thing is that there are custom designed triggers for these pedals, for which holes have been provided for mounting. And the foam in the hard case it came with also has space for the triggers. Neat!

The hoop clamp is an interesting mechanism in that there are screws underneath the board that allow you to position the pedal at variable distances from the bass drum in order to ensure that you get the action that you like. To clamp on the bass drum, you slide the pedal over the hoop and then tighten a wingnut to ensure that it clamps down. The clamping sections are rubber, so you won't damage your hoop.

The pedal has quite a few adjustments. You can adjust the beater angle independently of the footboard. You can also alter the feel of the pedal by raising or lowering the point where the footboard connects to the direct drive linkage. You can also adjust the throw of the direct drive to different positions, an adjustment not available on the Trick pedals.
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Okay, silly question time. How exactly do these pedals attach to the bass drum hoop? I'm not sure if the mechanism in the 4th pic is a hoop clamp or something else. I'd like to think it's the hoop clamp, but I don't see how.

How do they feel under your feet? Do you find them to be fast enough?
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
Where is the Problem?

I don`t believe it, i know it.
I'm happy for you if you believe very different pedals are the same. :sleep:

Oh, and do read this thread where on the first page you'll see people say the Iron Cobra is a pedal with a heavy feel.

 
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Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
Okay, silly question time. How exactly do these pedals attach to the bass drum hoop? I'm not sure if the mechanism in the 4th pic is a hoop clamp or something else. I'd like to think it's the hoop clamp, but I don't see how.

How do they feel under your feet? Do you find them to be fast enough?
I added an explanation in my review, forgot about the hoop clamp. Also added a bit about the direct drive and adjustments.

The hoop clamp is an interesting mechanism in that there are screws underneath the board that allow you to position the pedal at variable distances from the bass drum in order to ensure that you get the action that you like. To clamp on the bass drum, you slide the pedal over the hoop and then tighten a wingnut to ensure that it clamps down (after loosening the wingnut to open up the clamp). The clamping sections are rubber, so you won't damage your hoop.

The pedals are definitely fast (as most pedals can be if you use proper technique), but what I like about them (which keeps being rebutted by Skilas) is that the pedals have a heavier feel. If you've ever used an Axis or Trick, you'll know what a light feeling pedal is like. With my Tricks, it always felt like the pedal was getting away from me, you can barely feel the pedal, it's like it's not there (at least when I'm playing it). With the CKs, it's completely different, I can maintain a good connection with the pedal, like there's a reassuring weight below that I can feel. They remain very responsive.

How fast are they? About as fast as you can play them, I'd say, they've got some incredible drummers as endorsees, some of the fastest in the world.
 
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Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
Part 2 of review:
PLAYABILITY:
I'll try to add a video to this section, based on my limited playing ability. But I'll put down a few thoughts:
1) The direct drive pedal is very smooth and there's no lag between the master and slave pedals.
2) The pedals hit much harder than I thought they would, having tried four direct drives so far. A lot of power, I'm wondering whether the mass has something to do with this. This is great for doubles, since you get a solid second hit compared to the much lighter one that I'm more accustomed to.
3) The beater design is also really great. It's quite heavy and has a large surface area.
4) The boards are quite long and wide. This is a big plus for me, since it allows me to get more of my foot on the board when I'm playing and I don't find myself (often) in situations where I've run out of board and have to readjust in the middle of a pattern.
5) I can play with shoes! I usually play barefoot, because I just feel it gives me a better connection to the boards. But I bought a pair of performance driving shoes the other day and thought I'd try them out on the pedals. I was really pleased with the results.
6) A lot of adjustments on the pedal, which really helps you to customise them to your requirements. I found the stock settings worked the best for me.
 

Reggae_Mangle

Silver Member
Part 3: THE BAD

1) Really, really expensive.
2) Seems like a lot of borrowed design elements, even if they all seem to have been improved
3) Spring tension adjustment can be difficult and you have to get down on your hands and knees to do it.
 
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