Notation Questions.

Mr_Runner

Member
Hi I have some questions about some notation examples I have although maybe I can hopefully try to address a few at a time rather than more at once. Anyway with regards to the image I have included I am slightly confused about bar 16 and what it means with a reasonable degree of certainty. I think it's the addition of the repeat sign that has added to my confusion (which I am at times!). In terms of the bar being a fill, I don't know why the repeat sign is even there unless it is saying that the first half of the bar means repeated and the second half a fill? This occurs again towards the bottom of the piece in bar 32 I think. It also appears in bar 28 even though there are other drum voices I think in the bar. I'm not sure if it means to play the written stuff but to also add other drum voices in the bar as part of a fill at least?

Any help would be very much appreciated.


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This is intended to indicate that there are accents being played by the other instruments, and that the drummer can or should reinforce them in a way that suits the style. This could be played while continuing to play the time, but in this example I'd probably play the four accented notes with the bass drum plus crash, and fill in between the accents. Since it is a shuffle, that would be swung eighth notes.
 
This is intended to indicate that there are accents being played by the other instruments, and that the drummer can or should reinforce them in a way that suits the style. This could be played while continuing to play the time, but in this example I'd probably play the four accented notes with the bass drum plus crash, and fill in between the accents. Since it is a shuffle, that would be swung eighth notes.
Ah ok I think you're mainly talking about bar 28. I guess you wouldn't do as you suggested in the bar before this as no fill is indicated? Or just the crashes above the accented bass drums with no other fill?

In terms of bar 16 that could be a fill but the repeat sign is indicated for the other instruments? + the crescendo is for the second half of the bar both for the fill and the other instruments? Thanks ever so much for your reply. It means a lot.
 
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I was thinking about bars 33 & 34. For some reason I didn't see the ones occurring at bars 12, 20 and 24.
I'd have to say that these headless notes are not really standard, and that doesn't help, although it wouldn't really bother me if I had to read it.
They are meant as ensemble figures. You can buy Steve Houghton's Studio & BigBand drum book in order to learn how to play this.
 
I was thinking about bars 33 & 34. For some reason I didn't see the ones occurring at bars 12, 20 and 24.
I'd have to say that these headless notes are not really standard, and that doesn't help, although it wouldn't really bother me if I had to read it.
They are meant as ensemble figures. You can buy Steve Houghton's Studio & BigBand drum book in order to learn how to play this.
I just edited my post above if you didn't see the latest edit. I don't think the stuff above the stave is that common - not a lot came up in terms of a google search at least. The book this comes from explains it in this way I think;
 

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Bar 16, etc. The repeat signs mean you play the shuffle beat for most of the bar, then play a short fill at the end of the bar.
 
I don't know what is this book you're trying to use. It explains it but you don't get it.

Like I said, buy Steve Houghton's book to study this.
It is a book by Dave Hassell - Graded Course for Drum Kit book 1 I think. I am trying to understand what I don't fully at present! In terms of the stuff written above the stave (phrasing above the stave I think according to the book as in the images) that you've been talking about the book says as in the images I uploaded that it is up to the drummer whether it is played or not. Which means that you don't have to play anything there? It gives equivalent examples of a dotted crotchet and a quaver in terms of the close up image uploaded.

I have seen a drummer write their own stuff above the stave in addition to what was there and in that case it was an added fill that may have been played with an SPD pad. They referred to this as overdubbing or something like that.
 
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To account for all of them-- in bar 8 you're playing a fill after a stop, hence the slashes and no repeat sign.

In bar 16 and 32 you're filling during an ongoing groove, do that the way you would normally do it, you don't have to do anything special to honor the repeat sign during the fill.

In bar 28 there's a apparently an arranged thing happening with that rhythm on the bass drum, with a fill in the last beat or couple of beats. Decide for yourself whether you need to play the quarter notes on the bass drum under the fill.

It's just a guide for normal playing-- with a beat, fills, accents, and stops, all done normally. If the chart seems to be asking you for something weird, it's probably for expedience writing the thing out. Follow your ears and do whatever makes sense.
 
Hi I have some questions about some notation examples ...
I refer to your original message.

I'm telling you honestly, if those are your questions I can see that you have no idea of what to play, I mean reading it at least. Something, or all, can be explained through these messages, but believe me, honestly, there is too much you don't know to face it.

Please don't be offended, I'm telling you this sincerely. The score is not difficult at all but your reading knowledge is too basic to cope with it.

You should take GENERAL reading lessons with a teacher and then SPECIFIC ones for "Chart Reading.", the last is "one step BEYOND"

Good luck!
 
I refer to your original message.

I'm telling you honestly, if those are your questions I can see that you have no idea of what to play, I mean reading it at least. Something, or all, can be explained through these messages, but believe me, honestly, there is too much you don't know to face it.

Please don't be offended, I'm telling you this sincerely. The score is not difficult at all but your reading knowledge is too basic to cope with it.

You should take GENERAL reading lessons with a teacher and then SPECIFIC ones for "Chart Reading.", the last is "one step BEYOND"

Good luck!

Yeah that's all probably true at this point. My knowledge and understanding here maybe too basic to play it properly and to a good standard. However this is my very first attempt at a music chart. I don't even completely understand what that is and what it encompasses. I've only really started to look into it. It does seem higher level than perhaps pure drum notation of an equivalent standard and more to it with other instruments involved which can complicate things for a beginner / without some experience here.

I have drum lessons every 2 weeks partly due to having to travel a bit to get to them. I was just trying to try to do what I could before my next lesson and hopefully I can sort some of it then. However the lessons aren't guaranteed every 2 weeks - my teacher has a good few priorities and music wise before myself.

You said the chart reading was "one step BEYOND". Does that mean generally speaking that they're harder or beyond me or both?

Thank you for your reply and time, I really do appreciate it.

ps I think I've seen you on Youtube from your post pic.
 
To account for all of them-- in bar 8 you're playing a fill after a stop, hence the slashes and no repeat sign.

In bar 16 and 32 you're filling during an ongoing groove, do that the way you would normally do it, you don't have to do anything special to honor the repeat sign during the fill.

In bar 28 there's a apparently an arranged thing happening with that rhythm on the bass drum, with a fill in the last beat or couple of beats. Decide for yourself whether you need to play the quarter notes on the bass drum under the fill.

It's just a guide for normal playing-- with a beat, fills, accents, and stops, all done normally. If the chart seems to be asking you for something weird, it's probably for expedience writing the thing out. Follow your ears and do whatever makes sense.
Hi thank you for your reply, I really do appreciate it. I'll try to take your info on board. Not sure if charts are a bit beyond me at least at this point though. I guess I could keep trying to at least try to get a few more of the details even if I can't properly read it let alone play it. I do have lessons but have explained this just above this post I think.
 
You said the chart reading was "one step BEYOND". Does that mean generally speaking that they're harder or beyond me or both?
It means you need to read well snare drum studies (and many other things) plus have some experience playing with others to start before attemping chart reading.

Have you done any extensive reading with snare? Which books, up to what page?, that is the most basic thing to start all this, but thats the not the only requirement, as said.

Thats why is beyond, you need to know one for start doing the other...

ps I think I've seen you on Youtube from your post pic.
ME:
 
In terms of the bar being a fill, I don't know why the repeat sign is even there unless it is saying that the first half of the bar means repeated and the second half a fill?

This is what Alex means. This lead sheet is basically saying "Play this groove throughout, here are some hits and cues to follow otherwise". The fill on measure 16 just means to do a fill into the next bar. Could be the entire measure, maybe just beat 4. That is up to you to decide what fits (sounds good).

It also appears in bar 28 even though there are other drum voices I think in the bar

That is there so you can know that is the bar the band is at when you hear that phrase. Play the hits or playing through is up to you.

I have seen a drummer write their own stuff above the stave in addition to what was there and in that case it was an added fill that may have been played with an SPD pad. They referred to this as overdubbing or something like that.

I wouldn't worry about that right now. Overdubbing is when the drummer records something like the main groove and later punches in (digitally) some sort of fill so that both the main groove and some other drum part are in that measure. This is outside the scope of what you are trying to learn.

gain towards the bottom of the piece in bar 32 I think. It also appears in bar 28 even though there are other drum voices I think in the bar. I'm not sure if it means to play the written stuff but to also add other drum voices in the bar as part of a fill at least?

That's up to you how you want to play the hits.

In your image with instructions "Musically and with taste" comes with knowing the styles. As a beginner I wouldn't worry about it that much. Just try to play down the chart playing with the band and accenting what they do at the right time.
 
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To account for all of them-- in bar 8 you're playing a fill after a stop, hence the slashes and no repeat sign.

In bar 16 and 32 you're filling during an ongoing groove, do that the way you would normally do it, you don't have to do anything special to honor the repeat sign during the fill.

In bar 28 there's a apparently an arranged thing happening with that rhythm on the bass drum, with a fill in the last beat or couple of beats. Decide for yourself whether you need to play the quarter notes on the bass drum under the fill.

It's just a guide for normal playing-- with a beat, fills, accents, and stops, all done normally. If the chart seems to be asking you for something weird, it's probably for expedience writing the thing out. Follow your ears and do whatever makes sense.
This.....is a very good explanation.....charts are different for drummers....not like a precise viloin part.....we get lee-way.
 
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