No, Your Favorite Product is NOT the Best

Neal Pert

Well-known member
It seems that a lot of guys like to write about their product discoveries as if they were religious epiphanies. I shudder to think of how many times I have read something like this:

"I played [Product A] for 75 (+/-) years but then suddenly I switched to [Product B] and it changed my life. And you, friend, labor in darkness if you have not experienced [Product B]."

So, a few assertions which I think are self-evidently true:

1. People's purely subjective tastes vary and as a result they will like different brands. As a result, one can find fans and detractors of just about any product.
2. For the most part, the big companies and most of the little companies make products that a significant segment of the population will like.
3. For the most part, drum heads of similar styles will sound pretty much the same.
4. All the major cymbal companies make well-produced cymbals that may or may not be to your taste. Your favorite cymbal brand also makes cymbals that are not to your taste. Your lack of exposure to the breadth of the product line of any top cymbal manufacturer is a big reason why you don't like certain brands
5. When head choice, diameter, tuning, muffling, snare selection, room, mic, and player are all taken out of the picture, the differences among snare drums are NOT massive.
6. Ditto for toms and bass drums.
7. Many of us strongly identify with particular drum heroes, particularly when it comes to sounds and therefore brand selection.
8. There are certain products that have won near-universal acclaim for their quality (eg the Ludwig Supraphonic snare drum). Likewise, there are products that have earned widespread contempt (eg the Pearl tom mount). But even the least popular products have their committed enthusiasts, and the most popular products have their detractors.

Most of what we like is just subjective, like having a preference of a peanut butter brand. Some of it's marketing, some of it's emotional response, some of it is the stories we tell.

What'd I miss?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
I don't think you're missing anything. Differences drive people.

Take away the differences and there's no need for forums like this.

I do get your point though. We all tout what we like. Which like you say is subjective. This is a good place for subjective.

Viva la difference. I like hearing peoples strong opinions. I might learn something from it.
 

C.M. Jones

Well-known member
So, a few assertions which I think are self-evidently true:

1. People's purely subjective tastes vary and as a result they will like different brands. As a result, one can find fans and detractors of just about any product.
I've deleted points two through eight, as point one all but negates further examination. Every aspect of material preference is purely subjective. A cheap and poorly constructed snare to one player might be the best snare on the planet to another. A $500.00 pair of hi-hats might be one drummer's dream but another's complete waste of capital. My love of Pearl is based on pure fluff to some observers, whereas their love of other brands is foreign to me. We like what we like; then we strive to convince others that our taste is built on substance. There's no brand -- or product that bears a given brand's label -- to which that pattern doesn't apply. We aren't robots. Bias makes us human. I'd rather be biased than synthetic.
 
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MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
"I played [Product A] for 75 (+/-) years but then suddenly I switched to [Product B] and it changed my life. And you, friend, labor in darkness if you have not experienced [Product B]."
Dear human,

While I appreciate your sentiment about the epicness of Product B, I would like to remind you that for 75 years you too have been laboring in darkness, and therefore do not have enough experience with Product B to give me an honest to goodness, unbiased review of said product. Please continue to use and enjoy Product B until you no longer do, or your emotions about it have returned to normal. Only then will I consider your review of said product. Until then, I really just dont care. Thank you and have a nice day.

Sincerely,
Another human
 

Neal Pert

Well-known member
I love it when people find something that they like. Heck, I especially love it when *I* find something that I really like, especially if the sound is more what I've been looking for.

A couple months ago, I bought a Canopus "The Maple" piccolo. I love it! To my ears, given almost all available piccolos, I'd choose this one again and again. But that just makes it the one I love the most. It doesn't make it the best.
 

Cmdr. Ross

Silver Member
5. When head choice, diameter, tuning, muffling, snare selection, room, mic, and player are all taken out of the picture, the differences among snare drums are NOT massive.
6. Ditto for toms and bass drums.

What'd I miss?
I'd respectfully disagree with how #5 works with #6 as far as kick drums are concerned.
Example: I have 2 different sized kick drums: a 22" Gretsch & a 26" Luddy. Both of these sound completely different with different heads & when I brought them both into the studio, my engineer had me use his 20" because he didn't like how either of the bigger kicks sounded in his mic's.

I've tried Remo CS, Evans EMAD & hydraulic & Aquarian on these & they all have vastly different sounds.

The rest of these are great. ;)
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
soooo....

end communication and discussion in general?

everybody is correct and we all get a trophy?

😑
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Well-known member
In an opinion based discussion, this is correct. Best implies opinion, so yes.

agreed...but it seems like the OP topic is that no one is allowed to discuss opinions, and back up their reasoning as to why the opinion was formed, because the reality is that all topics are subjective

I see this topic come up all the time on the other forums I am on when poster A states an opinion, and then gets "shot down" by the other posters, and then becomes defensive this way

and I think the real issue is people - currently - have a hard time discerning between (objective) facts and (subjective) opinions.

If I say "Zildjians are the best cymbals", there would be a large demographic of people who would try to "prove me wrong"...when it is not a topic of proving right or wrong. They are missing, or not understanding the implied subjectivity.

In the same way, 2+2=4, no matter what. I freaking HATE math...but that does not change the objective, proven reality that 2+2=4. There is no way for me to use my subjective hatred of math to change the objective reality of the equation....and MANY people are trying to do that now recently because they don' get objectivity vs. subjectivity
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
It seems that a lot of guys like to write about their product discoveries as if they were religious epiphanies. I shudder to think of how many times I have read something like this:

"I played [Product A] for 75 (+/-) years but then suddenly I switched to [Product B] and it changed my life. And you, friend, labor in darkness if you have not experienced [Product B]."......


That honeymoon/new gear rush. I guess we've all gotten it at one time or another.

After a few times, some learn to accept it for what it is - some don't.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
There is no best. There is no worst.

I like what I like.

Agreed. Sometimes my likes evolve and change. Sometimes I discover a new or improved product and like it better than what I'd been using. I keep my eyes, ears, and mind open so I can enjoy what I do, and maybe do it better.
 

dwsabianguy

Senior Member
When it comes to sound, I agree; there is no objective "best" but rather only what someone likes most for their chosen goal.

However, there are certain measurable qualities in various pieces of hardware - weight, capacity, size, adjustability, etc, that can objectively give a piece of gear an advantage over another, depending on the desired result.

I personally use an often mismatched variety of gear to give me the sound I want. Nobody's coming after me to endorse their product, and I'm not going after them either, so I just use what gives me what I want.
 

yammyfan

Senior Member
I try to stick to descriptors like "versatile" and "sturdy" when describing drum gear I've used and like. I avoid using terms like "better" and "best" if at all possible.
 

SomeBadDrummer

Well-known member
That honeymoon/new gear rush. I guess we've all gotten it at one time or another.

After a few times, some learn to accept it for what it is - some don't.
Yeah, it's like looking for some 'strange' on the weekend back in college. Always thrilling to get into something different and experience the new sensations.
It seems that a lot of guys like to write about their product discoveries as if they were religious epiphanies. I shudder to think of how many times I have read something like this:

"I played [Product A] for 75 (+/-) years but then suddenly I switched to [Product B] and it changed my life. And you, friend, labor in darkness if you have not experienced [Product B]."

So, a few assertions which I think are self-evidently true:

1. People's purely subjective tastes vary and as a result they will like different brands. As a result, one can find fans and detractors of just about any product.
2. For the most part, the big companies and most of the little companies make products that a significant segment of the population will like.
3. For the most part, drum heads of similar styles will sound pretty much the same.
4. All the major cymbal companies make well-produced cymbals that may or may not be to your taste. Your favorite cymbal brand also makes cymbals that are not to your taste. Your lack of exposure to the breadth of the product line of any top cymbal manufacturer is a big reason why you don't like certain brands
5. When head choice, diameter, tuning, muffling, snare selection, room, mic, and player are all taken out of the picture, the differences among snare drums are NOT massive.
6. Ditto for toms and bass drums.
7. Many of us strongly identify with particular drum heroes, particularly when it comes to sounds and therefore brand selection.
8. There are certain products that have won near-universal acclaim for their quality (eg the Ludwig Supraphonic snare drum). Likewise, there are products that have earned widespread contempt (eg the Pearl tom mount). But even the least popular products have their committed enthusiasts, and the most popular products have their detractors.

Most of what we like is just subjective, like having a preference of a peanut butter brand. Some of it's marketing, some of it's emotional response, some of it is the stories we tell.

What'd I miss?
I'm not sure I understand the thesis of this post containing self-evidently true assertions about people who have 'discovered' a brand or product they like and want to discuss with others on a forum which discusses drums and cymbals.
It appears that you prefer Ludwig gear and have some level of disdain for Pearl or am I off on that?
and I think the real issue is people - currently - have a hard time discerning between (objective) facts and (subjective) opinions.

If I say "Zildjians are the best cymbals", there would be a large demographic of people who would try to "prove me wrong"...when it is not a topic of proving right or wrong. They are missing, or not understanding the implied subjectivity.

In the same way, 2+2=4, no matter what. I freaking HATE math...but that does not change the objective, proven reality that 2+2=4. There is no way for me to use my subjective hatred of math to change the objective reality of the equation....and MANY people are trying to do that now recently because they don' get objectivity vs. subjectivity
You are absolutely 100% correct in this. Opinions are flexible and tend to change with the wind; people are fickle.

Facts are stubborn things.

Oh, and yes - Zildjian's are the best cymbals! (y) :LOL:
 

dmacc_2

Well-known member
The older you get and the longer you do it, the big take away (for me anyways) is to understand there are no rules..

But, some folks are passionate about certain elements of gear and music on this site and in life so they are up to conversating/debating about what may make one thing superior over another. Not just in gear, but also in style(s) of music, etc...

I try to stay out of those conversations because I often offer no value.
 
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