New Ludwig 8x14" Black Beauty/Copperphonic!

Juniper

Gold Member
Really, really looking forward to hearing that 14x8 BB in person one day.

Already dreading seeing the price tag though!
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The copper sounds wonderful at the highest tuning. I still like the BB a little better, though.
I've got the Copper and BB at med-high tunings at NAMM. It would be easy (and obvious) to tune them fatter, but I wanted to show off their more practical range. I'm going back & forth about which might be better, but both are excellent drums and really stand out among the nearly 50 snares in the booth this year.

Bermuda
 

jbonzo1

Silver Member
Hey Bermuda,
Any chance Ludwig will offer the flat Imperials on Classic Maple and Legacy snares? And have they said when the Atlas strainer and butt will be available as parts?
Thanks
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
I've got the Copper and BB at med-high tunings at NAMM. It would be easy (and obvious) to tune them fatter, but I wanted to show off their more practical range. I'm going back & forth about which might be better, but both are excellent drums and really stand out among the nearly 50 snares in the booth this year.

Bermuda
I feel that the BB is no good at medium-low, but sounds amazing at the very low and very high tunings. I can't pick which tuning is best, maybe the lowest, but it's so close. Makes me wish they'd do some 15" BBs, just to see what that sound is like.
 

Destroyer772

Gold Member
It sounds the same as the Memphis drum shop video of the 14x8 Black Magic they did a couple of years ago. If you read the comments of this video there all good. I just have a hard time buying into the more expensive is better Idea. It must be something you have to hear in person. $1000 snare drums on video's just dont sound any better to me then cheaper ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YntmzeK880I
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The 8" Black Beauty got some recognition at NAMM, very cool! Truly a great snare, and a LOT of people dug it. I have one on order. :) I took home the 8" Copperphonic from the booth, and as soon as I figure out a low and lightweight stand, it becomes my main snare in town!

Bermuda
 

Attachments

Red Menace

Platinum Member
Someone shared a photo of this snare on a drum builder's group with a comment that went something like: "Worldmax must just be pleased with themselves."
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
Ah, screw it - might as well make a 14x14 brass floor tom and put snare wires on it. Should be able to get about $2500 for something like that, right?

Imagine the engine block-sized gaskets !

Disclaimer : I do like the new deep brass drums....but they are getting out of control price wise ,for what they are - IMHO. And not just Ludwig.

I still prefer my $100 used Acrolite. In every way.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Someone shared a photo of this snare on a drum builder's group with a comment that went something like: "Worldmax must just be pleased with themselves."
Did Worldmax have an 8" seamless brass snare? I remember their Black Dawg etc series, but they were always regarded as "poor man's" Black Beauties, due to the welded seam (and Asian origin with regard to price.) They were nice drums for the money, but not a substitute for a Black Beauty. Same for Ludwig's own Black Magic - the seam distances it from the Black Beauty sound (and the country of manufacture also accounts for the difference in price!)

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Disclaimer : I do like the new deep brass drums....but they are getting out of control price wise ,for what they are - IMHO. And not just Ludwig.

I still prefer my $100 used Acrolite. In every way.
Unfortunately, a lot of stuff has become costly over time. I started lessons in the '60s and perused catalogs and went to music stores, and wished I had enough money to buy a Ludwig stand and 22" Zildjian cymbal, but $72 was so much money then! I can't imagine what I would have thought of a snare with a list price of $1306 - the 'list' on the 8x14" BB - when an entire kit with cymbals was maybe $600. BTW, there were no discounts back in the day. Items were advertised at the list price, and you paid that. Some stores would offer a break if you bought extra stuff, but there was no such thing as the 40% off that we've come to expect/demand on cymbals, 30-40% off on kits, and at least 50% off on heads.

And you're right, this new Black Beauty will be advertised at $849, and that's a large chunk of change when there are some very nice snares for a lot less, including most other offerings from Ludwig. But none of them are Black Beauties, and the new 8" snare is particularly spectacular.

I would also say that the 8" Copperphonic rivals the Black Beauty, and it's slightly more expensive at $879 street price. The 8x14" hammered Bronze is coming soon and will be slightly higher than that.

To a large extent, you get what you pay for. I think it's up to each of us to decide where a line may need to be drawn. But it can't be a hard line, because every drum fills a different need. Maybe a drum we use regularly shouldn't exceed $500, while a really beautiful drum worthy of display might have us spending $1500 or more. An investment drum will typically be even more, and a holy grail could be $5000. I have a lot of snares, but none in that category!

Bermuda
 

evilg99

Platinum Member
Unfortunately, a lot of stuff has become costly over time. I started lessons in the '60s and perused catalogs and went to music stores, and wished I had enough money to buy a Ludwig stand and 22" Zildjian cymbal, but $72 was so much money then! I can't imagine what I would have thought of a snare with a list price of $1306 - the 'list' on the 8x14" BB - when an entire kit with cymbals was maybe $600. BTW, there were no discounts back in the day. Items were advertised at the list price, and you paid that. Some stores would offer a break if you bought extra stuff, but there was no such thing as the 40% off that we've come to expect/demand on cymbals, 30-40% off on kits, and at least 50% off on heads.

And you're right, this new Black Beauty will be advertised at $849, and that's a large chunk of change when there are some very nice snares for a lot less, including most other offerings from Ludwig. But none of them are Black Beauties, and the new 8" snare is particularly spectacular.

I would also say that the 8" Copperphonic rivals the Black Beauty, and it's slightly more expensive at $879 street price. The 8x14" hammered Bronze is coming soon and will be slightly higher than that.

To a large extent, you get what you pay for. I think it's up to each of us to decide where a line may need to be drawn. But it can't be a hard line, because every drum fills a different need. Maybe a drum we use regularly shouldn't exceed $500, while a really beautiful drum worthy of display might have us spending $1500 or more. An investment drum will typically be even more, and a holy grail could be $5000. I have a lot of snares, but none in that category!

Bermuda
I agree with most of what you are saying Bermuda - so to be more clear about my point: it is my opinion that a Black Beauty has no business costing $1k + . That's boutique high-end land, I guess I've never considered Ludwig drums to be up in this stratosphere. I have always thought of them being working mans' drums. Accessible.

I should add that the falling Canadian dollar on the currency markets has pushed prices a LOT higher in the past couple of years up here in Canuck land...and that has me bummed out. The CDN->USD exchange is at about 0.75 right now, but instead of some retail things being about 25% higher, they are about 40-50% higher. Blah. Two years ago, we were on par $CDN=$USD. //Rant over.

A $1000 snare drum in the US will cost me $1600 now, after exchange and taxes. :(
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
I agree with most of what you are saying Bermuda - so to be more clear about my point: it is my opinion that a Black Beauty has no business costing $1k + . That's boutique high-end land, I guess I've never considered Ludwig drums to be up in this stratosphere. I have always thought of them being working mans' drums. Accessible.
I hear what you're saying, and I was going to post something similar myself. I remember when the "$500 Snare Drum" was a thing that was unique and special and that number was sort of the line in the sand between the working man's drum and the boutique.

But now, even the "plain old" LM400 is a $500 drum. Yeah, that's shocking, but it's also the cost of getting what that particular drum is. Now the line between production line and boutique is quickly moving towards $1000, and as production costs continue to rise that line is going to continue to move upward.

Honestly, I wish I could still buy a bronze Supra for $350 like I should/could have done just a few years ago, but that ship has sailed. Ludwig (especially) has done a good job offering the Supralite and Black Magic snares for those folks that want something close to their iconic USA-made snares at a "working man's" price point, but with Ludwig's flagship snares being handmade one-piece spun shells they ARE by design fairly unique today and as much as I wish it wasn't true priced accordingly.
 

Destroyer772

Gold Member
I am upset that seam that I can barely see in my 14x8 Black Magic Asian Brass shell swallows up all those heavenly harmonics. DAMN IT
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I agree with most of what you are saying Bermuda - so to be more clear about my point: it is my opinion that a Black Beauty has no business costing $1k + . That's boutique high-end land, I guess I've never considered Ludwig drums to be up in this stratosphere.
To be fair, Ludwig's standard catalog offerings sell for less than $900, and street price on the 8x14 BB is $849 (US$ of course.) That's the upper end of the range, and those are US-made drums. Of course it's easy to spend less and still get a great drum, but the Supraphonic line is special. I would hope that everyone who buys an aluminum Supra, Bronze Supra, Copperphonic or Black Beauty feels that they made a smart purchase.

Boutique snares that truly rival the Supra line - seamless shells, that is - cost more than Ludwig's drums. And additional specialty and boutique offerings can run $1500 and more. I've got some of those high-end and unique snares, some are absolutely worth the money, and some are simply over-priced IMO.

And don't forget that until now, the expensive Black Beauty sells for $749. But even the new BB at $849 is not that expensive in the scheme of things. There are plenty of snares that cost less, and plenty that cost more.

A $1000 snare drum in the US will cost me $1600 now, after exchange and taxes. :(
Unfortunately, the exchange rate is hurting sales of many US products, and for Australia and Britain as well. Even if you were able to have someone buy the 8x14 in the States and get it delivered without duty, it would still run about CDN$1225. :(

Bermuda
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Ludwig (especially) has done a good job offering the Supralite and Black Magic snares for those folks that want something close to their iconic USA-made snares at a "working man's" price point
I think the Supralites are nicer for what they are, than the Black Magics are. And, they're less expensive: $199, often less, for any size (the Black Magics start at $299.)

So are the Black Beauty and Copperphonics worth 2-3x the price? YES!

:)
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I am upset that seam that I can barely see in my 14x8 Black Magic Asian Brass shell swallows up all those heavenly harmonics. DAMN IT
I don't think a seam is inherently bad. One of my best-sounding snares is a pre-serial COB, and - surprise - those drums had seams! They should just call them Pre-seamless. But there are other factors that affect its sound, such as its original brass hoops, and heavier lugs. There's no reasonable way to compare it to a modern welded seam brass snare.

There's not a drastic difference between a welded-seam and seamless shell, but it is noticeable, and based on my experience, the seamless is always preferable. That experience is based on several years of tuning all of the drums in Ludwig's NAMM booth, which regularly re-acquaints me with each drum's characteristics. Having just completed 7 days at NAMM, the characteristics and differences are quite fresh for me. :)

Bermuda
 

T_Kauff

Member
Once again, THANK YOU Ludwig !!

I've been waiting soooo long for the 8" to be brought forward, I hope they offer the hammered versions as well!!! I own a great deal of boutique hand built snares costing many thousands each so, as far as I'm concerned, their price is a great deal !!!

I only hope they offer the aluminum and bronze as well. And while I'm dreaming, a 4" would round out a perfect collection !!!
 

Destroyer772

Gold Member
I don't think a seam is inherently bad.

I was just being a little sarcastic Bermuda, I dont believe you would stir any body wrong. My Tama Starphonic is seamless and it does sound wonderful. I do believe it is something I would have to hear in person to appreciate though with the BB's.
 
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