New kit tom tree dilemma

Superman

Gold Member
So I have a couple of my mid level kits for sale and I've decided that I really want to own a top line maple kit. I've always kinda wanted a DW Collectors kit but recently I saw a great price on a Ludwig Classic maple kit. In my opinion the two kits are on par. The problem is, I definitely want the toms mounted on the bass drum but I don't have the heart to drill a virgin bass. So is that a reason to not buy the kit? I researched the Ludwig Atlas mount, but it seems that is for a single tom, and I use 2 toms up. I looked for a Saturn 3 mount like Larry, but I can find any for a double tom, plus I'm not handy like Larry and I can't weld it. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
 

single-ply

Senior Member
This is what I did. I also love the center mount, but just can't bring myself to drill my Craviottos. I only play one up, so this may not be of too much help for you, but may help others.

This system works wonderfully. A DW rim claw (I used their cowbell mount) and the Dunnett floor tom to bass drum conversion rail.

I thought this might put undue stress on the bass hoop, but my worries have been erased. Have used this setup for over a year with no issues. The only thing I did was put a small piece of leather glued to the rubber foot, so as not to mark the bass drum.
 

Attachments

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
That is a really clever solution. Much respect. Nice brain you have there.

And the steambent walnut is drool-worthy.
 
T

The SunDog

Guest
That is a really clever solution. Much respect. Nice brain you have there.

And the steambent walnut is drool-worthy.
Disagree. This is an epically bad idea. For a Pearl Vision maybe, but this will leave permanent marks on that hoop and where that foot hits the shell. Trust me. I used to lay a pair of sticks on top of my bass drum to have them in case of a drop. Over the course of a few years they left permanent wear marks. This was just a 5b laying on the shell and my kit was a DW Collectors. That's bad enough, but yours is a Craviotto! You couldn't get the tom in that position using a snare stand? I'd find any solution that does not touch the bass drum.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
You dont have to re-weld the Mapex mount like Larry did. It all depends on the depth of the bass drum. If its an 18" deep bass drum it may fit without any modification. But, Ludwigs have really large spacing for the lug mounts on their bass drum lugs. The Mapex is a single screw solution with an alignment pin about 1" apart. Larry was lucky that the hole spacing of his lugs was right around 1" and the screw/alignment pin fit in the existing holes.

Truth is, the alignment pin doesnt matter on the mount though. The lugs are stuck in place by the bars, so there's no worry of them getting out of alignment.

If you wanted to go the Saturn route and didnt want to weld you need to buy the older Saturn 3/ Orion mount with the old Saturn/Orion lugs. The cross bars are held in place by set screws inside the lugs and not screwed in to a boss on the back side of the lug like Larry's Saturn 4 mount. If you need to, you can cut the cross bars to length with a hacksaw and stuff them back in the lugs and tighten them down with the set screws. No welding required. The Saturn 3 mount does not have the tree on a sliding system like Larry's Saturn 4 mount, but I have not found placement of the toms on my Saturn 3 to be any issue.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Disagree. This is an epically bad idea. For a Pearl Vision maybe, but this will leave permanent marks on that hoop and where that foot hits the shell. Trust me. I used to lay a pair of sticks on top of my bass drum to have them in case of a drop. Over the course of a few years they left permanent wear marks. This was just a 5b laying on the shell and my kit was a DW Collectors. That's bad enough, but yours is a Craviotto! You couldn't get the tom in that position using a snare stand? I'd find any solution that does not touch the bass drum.
I can see your point. I choose not to worry about cosmetic stuff. I'm so over that. He did put a circle of leather between the mount and the shell, and if it does make a mark, well it's hidden by the mount anyway. There isn't a lot of surface area where the pressure on the shell is, that's my only concern. But I don't think it will ever cause a problem.

I betcha he did that mount for less than 40 dollars. My mod cost me $250...200 for the Saturn mount, 40 for my welding guy, plus I gave him a 10 dollar tip.
 
D

drumming sort of person

Guest
I definitely want the toms mounted on the bass drum but I don't have the heart to drill a virgin bass.
Send it to me and I'll drill it for you. Seriously, get over it and drill a hole into the sucker. The drums are there to serve YOU, not the other way around. I've been drilling holes into my drums since my first set at 13, many, MANY, decades ago. My most recent bass drums (Gretsch 22" and 20" USA Customs) were both victims of a my hole saw and they're better off as a result.

D R I L L that KICK!!!!
 

single-ply

Senior Member
Disagree. This is an epically bad idea. For a Pearl Vision maybe, but this will leave permanent marks on that hoop and where that foot hits the shell. Trust me. I used to lay a pair of sticks on top of my bass drum to have them in case of a drop. Over the course of a few years they left permanent wear marks. This was just a 5b laying on the shell and my kit was a DW Collectors. That's bad enough, but yours is a Craviotto! You couldn't get the tom in that position using a snare stand? I'd find any solution that does not touch the bass drum.
Trust me, I wouldn't do it if I even thought it might damage the bass drum. I've been playing an average of a gig a week with this setup for over a year and there is absolutely no marks or deflection with the bass hoop nor is there any issue with point load stress on the shell. A spot might eventually develop if the rubber stayed in contact with the shell, but I have the rubber tip covered with a suede dot.

Snare stands kill the tom resonance, imho, and I hate to ride them off of cymbal stands. I carry the lightest stands possible and don't want to add a heavy stand base so the cantilevered tom doesn't tip over.
 

Superman

Gold Member
Thank you for the replies. Tommy you are super knowledgeable! I am an indecisive person and this decision is driving me insane. I hears what Drummingsortofperson is saying, but drilling it just seems like stabbing a puppy. Just not sure I can pass up this deal.

Part of me wants to get them an attempt to hang them off cymbal stands, but I just know I won't like it. Does anyone here actually prefer hanging 2 toms off cymbal stands? Seems like we all would rather a tom tree.
 

Tommy_D

Platinum Member
Can't you fit 2 tom holders on the Atlas rail? That rail is a monster.

Edit: You sure can. Look what I found:
 

Superman

Gold Member
Tommy I saw that too, but I can't find anywhere that has a double in stock. I guess I'd have to buy 2 and add the second holder to the original rail?
 

single-ply

Senior Member
Let me add that before I got to the Dunnett rail option, I tried the atlas arch. I was very unimpressed with how far the thumb screws stuck out. Made for a bit of frustration getting the drum into it's gig bag. I also worried that a bump against one of the atlas lugs might crack the bass shell.

Second, the arch and tom connection is actually very heavy because it's way over-engineered, so if the point is to cut down on some weight in the hardware bag (always my objective), you're not losing a whole bunch. Total weight of the arch, two lugs, and the tom arm is about the same as a cymbal stand base beefy enough to hold a tom.

Third, I just saw the whole thing as ugly. I didn't like the atlas lugs on the Craviotto shell.

I like Larry's Mapex solution. I believe they made an earlier version that just connected to lugs at one end, correct? I looked at that, but the part that wrapped around the lug post was just slightly too long for the space between the posts on the Craviotto lugs, so I didn't pursue that.

Another connection similar to Larry's that I have seen, but I have no idea if it works well, is to install a Pearl optimount onto the top of the bass drum. The tree you use would have to be the same diameter as the Pearl's, whatever that is, and you might want to cut down the tree to your liking. It seems like it could be too much weight on the 4 tension rods on the bass drum.
 
Part of me wants to get them an attempt to hang them off cymbal stands, but I just know I won't like it. Does anyone here actually prefer hanging 2 toms off cymbal stands? Seems like we all would rather a tom tree.
I like hanging my toms off the cymbal stands. I can get them right where I want them. I have Tamas and love them. I just bought the boom stands with the counter weights and no problems.

That said, I don't gig with them so don't have to lug it around.
Also sounds like you know what you want. Go for the mount described above and be done with it. If you don't like it you can change it. It's only money!
 

T_Weaves

Silver Member
This is a bit off topic from the double tom tree mount aspect but if you're looking for high end maple kits ($2000-2500 range), I have to throw these out there.........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mapex-Black-Panther-White-Widow-Limited-Edition-Drum-Set-/302013326374?hash=item465165a426:g:h-kAAOSwRJ9Xhnpf

They're a couple hundred less than the Ludwig and you get two floor toms. Plenty of finish options too......."Would you like white, or white?" LOL

Seriously, I have the black widow and wholeheartedly recommend them. I played a DW Collectors 5 days before I bought these. Never looked back.

Anyway, good luck with your search and post plenty of pics!!
 

incrementalg

Gold Member
I was looking at this in black oyster pearl: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/drums-percussion/ludwig-classic-maple-4-piece-shell-pack?rNtt=ludwig%20classic%20maple&index=3#

Since you owned them, how would you compare them to other top kits like DW Collectors? Thanks.
The ludwigs have a distinctive sound that I really like. There's a roundness to the tone that just sounds Ludwig. You know how exhaust notes on certain cars sounds distinct to that car and nothing else? I can tell there's a mustang coming before I see it cause they sound distinct. I don't hear that when I hear most other maple kits...including DW. That's pretty much no help indescribing them..lol. They have a warm, round tone with a distinct Ludwig sound. I don't think they'll resonate like a Collectors set will, but they sound great in a different way.


The bass drum I had may have been an anomaly, but it was really versatile. Huge and fat when played open...still fat when muffled a little. I lent my kit out to a couple of drummer friends who preferred them over their Pearl Masters and Tama Star classic sets.
 
Top