New "Crosstown" lightweight stands from Yamaha

fl.tom

Senior Member
That's commendable Bermuda. Both DCP and Arizona Drum Shop have the HH in stock if you feel like switching your order is justified.
 

GripStix

Junior Member
Has anybody looked in to using these as a boom stand? Yamaha has a quick clip of one as a boom stand in the promo video but they don't go in to detail on what to order to make the straight stand in to a boom.
 

Jay Fitz

Junior Member
Has anybody looked in to using these as a boom stand? Yamaha has a quick clip of one as a boom stand in the promo video but they don't go in to detail on what to order to make the straight stand in to a boom.
There is no boom stand yet in the Crosstown version. What they show is a boom assembly from another Yamaha stand that is interchangeable with the Crosstown base. That's what I plan on doing as I have a few older double braced Yamaha boom stands already. This way I will lighten the load by using the Crosstown base at least...
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
Has anybody looked in to using these as a boom stand? Yamaha has a quick clip of one as a boom stand in the promo video but they don't go in to detail on what to order to make the straight stand in to a boom.
See post #72. At this time, we know the middle tube of the CS3 is 7/8" (22.2mm) diameter which would allow you to use the top and middle sections of a 700 series boom holder or stand (e.g. CH755 or CS755).

However, we haven't confirmed the top tube diameter of the CS3 yet. If it is 5/8" (15.8mm), then you could use just the top section of a 600 series stand (e.g CS655) for a lighter weight solution than using two sections from other series.

I have a HW3 coming in today and plan to measure and report back...
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
The HW3 eagle did land today. At first glance, all stands are quite impressive. Will just need more time this weekend to setup and review everything.

As far as the top section of the CS3, it does only have a 1/2" (12.7mm) tube diameter as suspected.

This limitation is driven by the 1/2" black plastic insert in the middle section, though the underlying metal knuckle has a larger 5/8"+ (15.9mm) opening into the 7/8" tube portion. (Note: it will not accommodate a 3/4" tube which would have expanded boom options significantly.)

Given the above, here's some initial thoughts for those that need boom arms (from light to heavy additions)...

1. Use something like a DW SM2033 1/2" expansion arm to replace the top tube and boom tilter:

https://www.thomannmusic.com/dw_sm2033_cymbal_expansion_arm.htm

Then insert a 1/2" boom rod of your choice.

2. Find/fabricate (with Delrin at a machine shop) a new black plastic insert for the middle tube with a inner diameter of 5/8". Then insert the top boom section of a Yamaha CS655/CS665, Tama StageMaster HC43BS/HC43BW or Gibraltar 4709 (or possibly others?).

3. Use a Gibraltar or similar boom section with a long 7/8" down tube into the base section for a reduced 2-section stand.

4. Use the top two sections of a Yamaha CH755/CS755 or similar with 7/8" mid section into the base section for a typical 3-section stand.

I tested the latter today and it worked like a champ, just added some weight. Will provide actual weights and more details after this weekend.
 

Jay Fitz

Junior Member
From the promo vid, it looks like you can really only add the older stands tubes into the base of the Crosstown.

Just ordered my Crosstown pack today...may get it as quickly as tomorrow as Drum Center of Portsmouth is only one state away to the north.
 
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GripStix

Junior Member
From the promo vid, it looks like you can really only add the older stands tubes into the base of the Crosstown.

Just ordered my Crosstown pack today...may get it as quickly as tomorrow as Drum Center of Portsmouth is only one state away to the north.
Let us know what you think. One of the comments mentioned they wished the HH stand had a tension adjustment. See what you think about it.
 

Jay Fitz

Junior Member
Let us know what you think. One of the comments mentioned they wished the HH stand had a tension adjustment. See what you think about it.
Will do. I'm currently using the HH stand that came with my Yamaha HipGig kit (700 series?) and that does not have a tension adjustment either so I don't think that will be an issue for me personally as I have no problem with the tension that is set on it.
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
From the promo vid, it looks like you can really only add the older stands tubes into the base of the Crosstown. ...
For a little more reassurance, everything stated in my previous post is accurate based on actual measurements and first-hand experience with Yamaha hardware (as well as Tama, Pearl and Premier) since the early 80s. Ludwig before that, and DW, Gibraltar and Sonor since the early 90s. No video observations or guessing.

The CS3 base section/tube accepts 7/8" diameter middle tubes with the default plastic insert.

The 7/8" diameter is Yamaha's "newer" standard on 700+ series cymbal stand/holder middle tubes, 3-hole receivers (e.g. TH904, TH904A) and bass drum mounts.

The 600 series uses 3/4" middle tubes and are not compatible.

Older made Indonesia cymbal stands (e.g. CS730/CS735) had 1" middle tubes and will also not fit/work.

The conversion to 7/8" happened during newer made in Indonesia and made in China hardware.

The latest made in China CS750/CS755 are a bit lighter than previous 700 models and work perfectly with the CS3 base as noted.

Any make holder/stand that has a 7/8" tube (provided it is not longer than the CS3 base tube ;-) will also work.
 
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fl.tom

Senior Member
Will do. I'm currently using the HH stand that came with my Yamaha HipGig kit (700 series?) and that does not have a tension adjustment either so I don't think that will be an issue for me personally as I have no problem with the tension that is set on it.
Unless it is a much older HS730 (discontinued in 1998) it is most likely a 600 series. No tension adjustment and thinner tubes than the newer 700 series. They are very smooth and fast and desirable to many when there isn't a need for stronger/heavier spring tension.
 

cutaway79

Silver Member
Unless it is a much older HS730 (discontinued in 1998) it is most likely a 600 series. No tension adjustment and thinner tubes than the newer 700 series. They are very smooth and fast and desirable to many when there isn't a need for stronger/heavier spring tension.
+1

I've owned 3 Yamaha 700 hihat stands from various years, and they all had/have the tension adjustment.
 

Jay Fitz

Junior Member
Measuring, brilliant!!

Seems that both my older stands (1986) and the "newer" HipGig boom arms all have 7/8" middle tubes. Fingers crossed that they'll work...
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
That's commendable Bermuda. Both DCP and Arizona Drum Shop have the HH in stock if you feel like switching your order is justified.
Thanks, will go with AZ Drum and their ebay listing, looks like free shipping and NO tax for me in California! I should have it for my gigs next week!

FWIW, I was connected immediately to a Musician's Friend customer service person, and cancelled the order. They did say I should have the stand by the end of the month, and I let them know that I could have it in my hands next week. :)

Bermuda
 
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Jay Fitz

Junior Member
I'll find out tomorrow...but another question until I do, how well is the Crosstown bag/case made and how much extra room is there for BD pedal, throne and maybe another stand???
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
... Seems that both my older stands (1986) and the "newer" HipGig boom arms all have 7/8" middle tubes. Fingers crossed that they'll work...
Can you describe the older stands further... Are they red label MIJ or silver label Made In Taiwan? And single or double braced?

If the HipGig boom arms are purple label Made In Indonesia, have the offset cymbal tilter and the locking wing bolt on top of the boom tilter (instead of the side), they should be CH745/CS745... which do have a 7/8" middle.

Nevertheless, as long as they are 7/8" and aren't significantly dented/out-of-round, they'll work. If the down tubes are longer than the base tube, the stand just may not collapse to the shortest length, but that's not a show-stopper.

I did do a little stability testing with the CS3 last night and it is much more prone to tip than the CS755... so care must be taken to balance a large/heavy cymbal and how it is struck with boom length and leg orientation. Had to keep reminding myself, the 3 series stands are intended to be both light-duty and light-weight afterall.

I'll find out tomorrow...but another question until I do, how well is the Crosstown bag/case made and how much extra room is there for BD pedal, throne and maybe another stand???
Are you familiar with the carry bags that were included with the older HS1000 and HS1100 hihat stands? The polyester denier and quality of construction seems to be very comparable between the two and the HW3 bag has about 1/8" of padding where the HS bag doesn't have any padding. Overall I'd classify it as a keeper and not a throwaway.

Yamaha specifies something to the effect that there is sufficient room for a BD pedal and small throne, and I believe you could possibly add a 3rd CS3 from the extra space I recall last night. I plan on measuring the dimensions this weekend, but Cutaway may be able to respond sooner.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Thanks, will go with AZ Drum and their ebay listing, looks like free shipping and NO tax for me in California! I should have it for my gigs next week!

FWIW, I was connected immediately to a Musician's Friend customer service person, and cancelled the order. They did say I should have the stand by the end of the month, and I let them know that I could have it in my hands next week. :)

Bermuda

I too ditched MF and Guitar Center (had orders with both, was waiting to cancel on the quickest delivery loser). AZ DRUMSHOP on eBay, free shipping if you purchase more than 1 item (i.e. cymbal and HH stand together).
 

fl.tom

Senior Member
Thanks, will go with AZ Drum and their ebay listing, looks like free shipping and NO tax for me in California! I should have it for my gigs next week!

FWIW, I was connected immediately to a Musician's Friend customer service person, and cancelled the order. They did say I should have the stand by the end of the month, and I let them know that I could have it in my hands next week. :)

Bermuda
Good to hear. Look forward to hearing your impressions. FWIW you did give MF first opportunity and they still got revenue from those of us that ordered the full set from them. ;-)

I also did a little testing of the HS3 last night and outside slightly less spring tension and a little more tendency to tip than a HS740[A], I'm very pleased with it and the SS3. It took a fairly wide leg spread on the CS3 to equal the stability a Ludwig 1400 flat base so need to experiment with it further.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Good to hear. Look forward to hearing your impressions. FWIW you did give MF first opportunity and they still got revenue from those of us that ordered the full set from them. ;-)
I always look to the independent shops - Bentley's, Drumcenter of Portsmouth, Skins & Tins, etc - for availability, pricing, and shipping, but when an item is priced the same for all dealers, I tend to go with the fastest ship, which for me in L.A. is Musician's Friend (Bentley's in Fresno is the next closest.)

I ordered the stand this morning from AZ Drum Shop, and expect to see it next Tuesday. Like MF, shipping was free, and I also saved sales tax which is an extra $12 in my pocket. (Hey, that's a couple of meals at Taco Bell!) I've been to the shop, most recently in May, and they were getting ready to move into a larger space a few doors down. I look forward to seeing the new place!

FWIW, neither Pro Drum, or the Hollywood Sam Ash or Guitar Center big stores had the stand.

Bermuda
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
OK, here we go. Received my CROSSTOWN stuff the other day. The HH3 Hi Hat stand and a CS3 cymbal stand in the shipping box weighed 13.34 lbs! Lightweight stuff fo sho.



I'll start my impressions with the HH3 and compare it to a YAMAHA 700 series HH stand. Right off the bat you can see the CROSSTOWN (HH3) looks like the 700's little sibling. The HH3 gives up 1" of height in the bottom section standing 23" to the 700's 24"

Leg spread measured center-center on the rubber feet-
HH3 16"
700 18"
Right away you can see the 700 is more stable on the ground, but will this be a factor at the gig(?).

Upper tube length-
HH3 14"
700 16"

Upper tube weights (this factors in later*)-
HH3 .39 lbs
700 .59 lbs

Top rod length-
HH3 17 1/4"
700 19 3/4"



Spring tension on the HH3 is about where the 700's is at when placed at the second lowest setting, did not find the HH3 spring setting unplayable, I feel YAMAHA got the spring feeling good considering the spring tension is not adjustable. The foot board looks identical to the 700 series board.

Everything about the HH3 is smaller than the 700 which is considered a small(er) HH, so I won't say the HH3 looks like a toy (even tho it does). Compared to, its noticeably more diminutive than the 700 series. This isn’t a HH3 vs 700 series HH shootout btw, the 700 is in the ‘mid weight’ HH stand category, and HH3 is ‘light weight’, but since there’s a ton of YAMAHA 700 series Hi Hats out there, people can have something widely familiar to compare the HH3 to.

The HH3 and the CS3 (and I’m sure the SS3) share the same leg design and material, its a stamped aluminum alloy and one look at the underside (pic #5) shows you how thin this stuff is. The leg receivers and the base are all one piece (pic #2), so my earlier idea of possibly tapping a set screw hole (there’s 3 set screws btw) and inserting a wing screw to allow the legs/base to swivel is definitely out of the question, no can do.

The heel plate hinge on the HH3 is a simple pin affair at the motion point (pic #4). The lower rod bumper where the chain assembly hits the bottom of the stand is a piece of felt, not rubber. I’ll have this felt switched out for rubber, don't think weight will be an issue.

All the little here and there’s, the felt bumper, no washer under the bottom rod nut at the connecting point (pic #4), the absence of a memory lock on the top tube, the shorter upper rod/tube, no locking nut on the upper rod, all these little things are no doubt part of the HH3’s light-weight formula, but will it be a factor at the gig(?).

The light weight formulae worked, when the HH3 is lifted off the ground, that’s when you say “Yeah!!!” The HH3 is extremely light and feels great to carry, one handed of course, and that’s what YAMAHA was going for with the design here.





Now what I don’t like about HH3. It doesn’t go high enough for me, I’m missing those 2 extra inches on the 700 has, so what I did was switched-out the 700’s upper tube and rod to make it work for me*.

This isn’t a matter of like it or not, just a matter of ‘what is’... the HH3 and the CS3 are so light weight, I can already see extra care needs to be taken when packing these stands with their steel brethren in a hardware bag, or hardware case. If these CROSSROADS stands get in any sort of 'hardware bag fight' with heavier steel stands, they’re going to get hurt and most likely damaged, possibly broken.

YAMAHA offers the CROSSTOWN stands complete as a bagged kit and that’s probably the best way for them to travel, amongst their own. I’m going to be careful to put these guys in the hardware bag last, on top of their steel workmates... until I can get all CROSSTOWN stuff.





CS3 Cymbal stand-

Grab it, lift it... another big “Yeah!!!”

CS3 max leg spread-
26.5”

Max height from the floor to where the two felts meet-
54.5”



You've already heard about the lower section clamp accepting 7/8” tubbing. The top section of the CS3 tubbing is all of .5” (pic #7), think of a 1/2” drill bit, that’s how small the top section tubbing is, woowzer!

The tilter (pic #6) is geared with fine teeth and is a smallish, off-set affair, again... this tilter is gonna easily get its butt kicked in a hardware bag fight with other steel stands, so be careful. Couple of phattie felts and a wing nut top off the CS3.




Summing it up:

*With the swapped 700 upper tube and rod, my HH3 now weighs 5 lbs Still a big “Yeah!!!” And I can worry-free clamp onto the upper tube section.



So do all the little things matter when it comes to performance?

I gigged the HH3 and CS3 this weekend and can honestly say the HH3 is impressive. It is 'not' my imagination the HH3 actually felt 'better' than the 700 series, better in the sense that lightweight aluminum alloy doesn't transfer shock like steel does, HH3 was a smoother ride for sure. How cool is that?

No stability issues with either stand, tho a swivel base on the HH3 would be a luxury. The spring tension on HH3 was fine, and I'll try HH3 again on the next gig with 15" hats, but no complaints at all with the spring tension, the overall feel of HH3 was so delightful, nothing else matters anyway.

I found the HH3 to be basically invisible, there's hardly any shock transfer, it plays great (update in 6 months after wear), and when its time to strike the stage the weight of these stands is a big nothing burger.

At the gig, same-same for the CS3. Miss the boom option, but no issues at all with CS3's overall performance. Everything slides smooth, and micro placement adjustments are that much easier, the stand is so light, you just nudge it into place with two fingers. The fun part was breaking down and telling the other band members to check out my new stands, see how light they are, they were all blown away.





This CROSSTOWN duo passed the performance test, and I cannot leave out the fact that they looked 'bloody ace' onstage, these stands are sexy AF with their phattie legs and brushed silver finish, really 'fresh' looking.

Local gigging Im definitely 'all in' on the CROSSROADS stuff. Waiting for a CROSSROADS throne that'll probably never happen, it would be nice tho, max load rate it, make the load warnings very clear etc.

Again, we'll have to wait n' see in 6 months how these stands wear, but wearable parts look easily replaceable if there's a problem.


Two thumbs way up here as the hardware load has been lightened and playability has not been compromised, and in the case of HH3 enhanced, due to the loss of shock transfer, which really did impress me onstage.



...........
 

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Jay Fitz

Junior Member
I was supposed to receive my new Crosstown pack on Friday, so that would have been great as I had a gig Friday night, perfect. Then USPS tells me it's coming on Saturday...OK fine, I have a gig on Saturday too. I left for the gig around 5:00 on Sat. and of course the package arrived after I left. Great.

But I did get around to opening it up and checking it all out yesterday. Very impressed. Yes, it's very light, but still feels substantial! We've all had low lever hardware at some point and I really feel that some of these other lightweight stands are just not made very well. There was no real thought put into design per se. They just seem like beginner stands. Just my $.02

The spread on the cymbal stands is awesome, the HH is very functional (see Les Ismore's review above) and the snare stand seems to be excellent.

Also my older heavy duty stands from the 80's, both silver/black labels and red/black labels, work with these new Crosstown bases so adding a boom is no problem. One of my kits has a hanging tom, so I'll probably just continue to used the heavy duty stand for that, or maybe get a 700 boom, we'll see.

One downside though... not sure I'll really be able to fit one other stand, throne, pedal and cowbell, etc. in this Crosstown bag.

No gigs this coming weekend, so I'll have to check back in a few weeks with a true real world review.

Overall...I'm pleased and vey happy I didn't pull the trigger on another brand earlier.
 
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