New Brooklyn’s….silver sealer?

AzHeat

Platinum Member
I’d be honored. But who provides the drums?
This would be an amazing test, but the models without silver sealer are so rare, unless we’re talking Renown and ….ugh…I forgot the name of the step down Renown!
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
This would be an amazing test, but the models without silver sealer are so rare, unless we’re talking Renown and ….ugh…I forgot the name of the step down Renown!
I think this would only be a fair test using the USA made models, or just the USA Custom alone so you can A-B compare.
 

RobertM

Platinum Member
I don't think anyone really wants to know. It could collapse a lot of wishful thinking and expose the marketing for what it is.

What will happen if there is no sonic difference?

I'm converting all my cash to gold just in case

If there is a sonic difference? Buy stock in Gretsch?
This is outright hilarious!!
 

RobertM

Platinum Member
Funny, it’s one of my least favorite designs. That ‘bounce’ creates a vibrato ‘WA Wa wa…’ that really bugs me, I guess others like it (?) Maybe the STAR version design is built to lessen this with the third bottom point, but the original wobbled a lot. A zinc die cast hoop is very dry/dead sounding, it’s a Tama signature now (perhaps their silver sealer, lol) that compresses their sound. Works perfect for starclassic maple, that’s a home run but other shell types no so much IMO, and you are always stuck with zinc diecast, can’t change it because it is the mount system.

I’m not a huge fan of RIMs either but I haven’t heard anything better really, and all mounts sound different. Everything vibrates from shell excitation unless cutting it off, no such thing as isolation. Unfortunately, most seem to side with visual design of how it looks rather than a design for sound shaping. Most posts I read here about lugs and finishes are mostly of visual concern with little regard to the end sound product, it’s another sound shape for sure.
Yeah, I see your point, but I like seeing the tom tom wobble about--gives me feeling that pleasing sustain is happening compared to the awful pipe-through-the-shell design Sonor and Pearl used during my youth in the late 1980s.

RIMS work and help the drum sound good, but it is such an unsightly device that's also cumbersome as heck when changing heads. I think the next best option is Yamaha's YESS system or Josh's tunable INDe tom tom mount. Yes, you're drilling the shell, but it seems to work well; plus, Yamaha's current YESS mount for Hybrid Maples and Hybrid Live Custom pierce the shell at three points, but those drums sustain super well!
 

s1212z

Silver Member
Yeah, I see your point, but I like seeing the tom tom wobble about--gives me feeling that pleasing sustain is happening compared to the awful pipe-through-the-shell design Sonor and Pearl used during my youth in the late 1980s.

RIMS work and help the drum sound good, but it is such an unsightly device that's also cumbersome as heck when changing heads. I think the next best option is Yamaha's YESS system or Josh's tunable INDe tom tom mount. Yes, you're drilling the shell, but it seems to work well; plus, Yamaha's current YESS mount for Hybrid Maples and Hybrid Live Custom pierce the shell at three points, but those drums sustain super well!
I think YESS is pretty good, and three point is better for sure they considered nodal points for the mounts which I like, it's pretty simple design. The old ISS Pearl mounts were terrible, they choked the rim on a triple flanged, had several issues. Had the RIMS on lugs like N&C, they weren't too bad, better for head changes that is for sure. But lug base mounts can really be hit and miss and notable on a thin shell, they generally don't sustain as well as regular RIMs and some are heavy (or need a heavy lug to make it work). The weight of the mount is also a factor I find, even on the RIMs the aluminum alloy is much better than the steel. The INDe wobbles, otherwise a cool idea. The trend toward direct tom mounts....well I'll still use it on my 60s Ludwig, it's part of the sound and works for that kit. But the newer kits, like with 3 rack toms of direct mounts is a weird trend IMO.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
What will happen if there is no sonic difference?

I'm converting all my cash to gold just in case

If there is a sonic difference? Buy stock in Gretsch?
There will be sonic differences between a sealed shell and raw. Whether the difference between silver sealer and varnish is noticeable remains to be seen or heard.

The thing about marketing hype is at some point it runs out. Maybe it’s because companies are always looking to reinvent excitement and this sales. If Gretsch is nothing more than hype, it sure has gone on way longer than any other campaign I know. Who knows?
 

JimmyM

Platinum Member
There will be sonic differences between a sealed shell and raw. Whether the difference between silver sealer and varnish is noticeable remains to be seen or heard.

The thing about marketing hype is at some point it runs out. Maybe it’s because companies are always looking to reinvent excitement and this sales. If Gretsch is nothing more than hype, it sure has gone on way longer than any other campaign I know. Who knows?
It’s just a different way of sealing the inside that some think looks cool. I think we’re way past the idea that fence paint is truly superior to a varnish.
 

RobertM

Platinum Member
There will be sonic differences between a sealed shell and raw. Whether the difference between silver sealer and varnish is noticeable remains to be seen or heard.

The thing about marketing hype is at some point it runs out. Maybe it’s because companies are always looking to reinvent excitement and this sales. If Gretsch is nothing more than hype, it sure has gone on way longer than any other campaign I know. Who knows?
I remember when Grover offered custom shops snares and I bought one, they offered different options for interior of shell: raw, sanded, tung oiled, and something that was quite similar to "silver sealer." The latter apparently amplified the shell sound by making the surface more sound reflective versus natural or oiled wood.
 

Neal Pert

Well-known Member
You do realize that the "silver sealer" test could be performed on any drum that doesn't presently have silver sealer, right?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry" - Administrator
Staff member
You do realize that the "silver sealer" test could be performed on any drum that doesn't presently have silver sealer, right?
Actually no. It didn't even occur to me. I was going for an apples to apples comparison. A valid point on your part.
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
I don't think anyone really wants to know. It could collapse a lot of wishful thinking and expose the marketing for what it is.

What will happen if there is no sonic difference?

I'm converting all my cash to gold just in case

If there is a sonic difference? Buy stock in Gretsch?

Maybe I'm just a dingus, but even if there was no sonic difference, I'd still want the silver sealer just because.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
It’s just a different way of sealing the inside that some think looks cool. I think we’re way past the idea that fence paint is truly superior to a varnish.
I'm not arguing that at all. The initial premise was, will there be sonic differences between silver sealer and raw. I'd bet money on it. Silver sealer and varnish? I'd definitely not take that bet, but there are different varnishes too. Gretsch uses a long and painful process for their finished woodgrains in the USA series, but pretty mainstream on their Renown. That keeps the costs down on the Renown, but the argument is the Renown will yellow over time and the USA will remain stable.

Some hate the silver sealer look, others like it. I won't argue that at all. I'm betting there's a bit more too it than just looks, because frankly, woodgrain is awesome. I can't for one second believe silver sealer is easier to apply than spraying the insides with varnish either. Maybe if they were rolled on vs sprayed. Obviously, Gretsch thinks they are somehow different, unless they have been able to ride this marketing hype for decades. if so, my hats off to them for keeping the BS alive for as long as they have. That's a feat in itself.
 

yammyfan

Senior Member
If the original intent of silver sealer was to cover up inferior wood, you would think that Gretsch would have used it on its cheapest lines but the opposite is true. The cheaper kits don't get it but the ones that don't need it, do. :unsure:
 

s1212z

Silver Member
Different shell construction . . and they definitely did NOT do a good job with that Pearl.. I have heard those things absolutely KILL it .

Rack tom sizes are different, not really fair to put them in near the same tunings and say Pearl sustains shorter, I agree.

Both are 6 ply maple/gum, 30 deg edge with a die-cast hoop...both roughly around 5.4-5.5mm but they mentions not exactly the same. Pearl talks about their high temp hydraulic bonding and drying method...what Gretsch does, no idea. Was the silver sealer the deal breaker? The depth difference? RIMs vs Optimount? 5 vs 6 lugs along with lug weight, drill points? Diecast hoop differences? Human variable in setup/tuning/recording/mic positioning?

I'm gonna go by the 16x16 FT for the question at hand, same size on both and all else pretty darn close on everything else for a worthy comparison...did not hear a silver sealer factor at all, sounded pretty darn close to me. Kick is relative with muffling and even harder to compare, but sounded close as well. The racks were not a good comparison given the depth difference.
 

jda

Well-known Member
there's also horizontal/vertical stacking :D considerations
m/g/g/g/g/m h/h/v/h/h/h Gretsch
Pearl lay up- dunno 4M 2G
 
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Artstar

Platinum Member
Both are 6 ply maple/gum,

Gretsch is a majority gum shell and all those plies are hidden on the inside.. 4 gum, 2 maple. exterior/interior are maple which afaik is the most influential ply .. the interior.. . Pearl is a maple shell with 2 interior gum. 4 maple, 2 gum.
 

s1212z

Silver Member
there's also horizontal/vertical stacking :D considerations
m/g/g/g/g/m h/h/v/h/h/h Gretsch
Pearl lay up- dunno
And glue, if we want to talk about shell tension along with grain orientation. Supposedly might even more relevant than the wood, lol. Gretsch are Keller if I recall versus whatever Pearl is. I'm guessing both are uniform plies, if that matters.

Gretsch is a majority gum shell and all those plies are on the inside.. 4 gum, 2 maple. exterior/interior are maple which afaik is the most influential ply .. the interior.. Pearl is a maple shell with 2 interior gum. 4 maple, 2 gum.

My understanding, gum is softer / less dense which 'should' make Gretsch a bit lighter if same thickness, along with the less hardware. Details, details...

So much for apples to apples, jda will need to sand down interiors of their toms answer this pressing question then...or if someone has a rare no-sealer vintage to comment.
 
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