Neil Peart Plays Buddy Rich

Steamer

Platinum Member
Sorry, but how does that work? Nobody is beyond critique.

Take an actor you really like. Now, has that actor ever been in a bad film? ALL actors have been in a bad film - so the answer there is a solid yes. Are we allowed to make that point clear? Yes. Does it help the actor improve and choose better films in the future? Yes. Now replace 'actor' with 'musician' or 'drummer'.


Agreed. It's healthy to know what we each can and cannot do and what we need to focus and work on especially if we are going to perform on a global stage where you are all naturally going to be directly compared to the greats that came before you who defined the craft regardless of what genre it is that was played musically speaking. This is how you remain humble and continue to grow as a musician {if that's what you desire}.

In this case if a well known drummers swing playing is "weak" or lacks the right "concept" and if humble enought to realize this after the valid comments that came in after this first attempt now opens up the chance to actually learn what is needed to make a better stab at it the next time around. I think Neil did this with studying with Peter Erskine to get a better grip on what it takes to play some authentic swing type playing. Good on him for that......
 

LinearDrummer

Silver Member
A top pro drummer is not beyond criticism because everyone has the right to express their opinion. How much of it is percieved as negative will depend upon how many aspects you like/dislike of the player.

Weckl was criticized for being too robotic with his playing. Maybe he listened cause eventually he went to Gruber, loosened up and is basically a totally different version.

I think its already been established that there are some issues with the playing in that clip. He's practiced and prepared for the 2009 concert so its time to post something recent and if people still don't like it so be it. That was more than 15 years ago..I can look back 5 years on my playing and be pretty embarassed. Lets give him a chance and see if he has improved with Erskine's tutoring.

From what I understand Steve Smith was a jazz trained drummer and even though he played with Journey not sure rock was his top priority...possible why his solo career was such a smooth transition to jazz.
 
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LinearDrummer

Silver Member
In this case if a well known drummers swing playing is "weak" or lacks the right "concept" and if humble enought to realize this after the valid comments that came in after this first attempt now opens up the chance to actually learn what is needed to make a better stab at it the next time around. I think Neil did this with studying with Peter Erskine to get a better grip on what it takes to play some authentic swing type playing. Good on him for that......


Yes!
A good example of how criticism can drive/inspire a musician to play better.

great post
 

Michael McDanial

Senior Member
Agreed. It's healthy to know what we each can and cannot do and what we need to focus and work on especially if we are going to perform on a global stage where you are all naturally going to be directly compared to the greats that came before you who defined the craft regardless of what genre it is that was played musically speaking. This is how you remain humble and continue to grow as a musician {if that's what you desire}.

In this case if a well known drummers swing playing is "weak" or lacks the right "concept" and if humble enought to realize this after the valid comments that came in after this first attempt now opens up the chance to actually learn what is needed to make a better stab at it the next time around. I think Neil did this with studying with Peter Erskine to get a better grip on what it takes to play some authentic swing type playing. Good on him for that......

Yes, this is exactly what I was saying in my first post.

I highly respect Neil and really enjoy his playing, but he hasn't got that swing feel. Of course, that doesn't mean that Neil couldn't learn how to swing. He seems to enjoy big band playing, so he certainly might get it down eventually. It's a lot harder to be playing rock for decades and then try and play jazz. Neil obviously enjoys jazz, so by all means, I hope he keeps trying.

According to michael drums, this a a hateful comment that is only meant to degrade Neil's playing. How the hell is my post a hateful remark towards Neil's playing?
 
M

michael drums

Guest
Look...


You guys miss the boat completely.

It's a memorial concert, for cryin' out loud!!!

Why you bustin' on NP?

Get over yourselves, and don't say anything if you don't have anything to add that educates or inspires. No matter if you have the right to.

Move on already. Geeez!
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Look...


You guys miss the boat completely.

It's a memorial concert, for cryin' out loud!!!

Why you bustin' on NP?

Get over yourselves, and don't say anything if you don't have anything to add that educates or inspires. No matter if you have the right to.

Move on already. Geeez!
Thank You Michael! My sediments exactly! Well, Said!
 

Steamer

Platinum Member
Look...


You guys miss the boat completely.

It's a memorial concert, for cryin' out loud!!!

Why you bustin' on NP?

Get over yourselves, and don't say anything if you don't have anything to add that educates or inspires. No matter if you have the right to.

Move on already. Geeez!

Actually a few of us made some pretty accurate ,honest and fair comments that could move Neil in the right direction which he sounds like he did after this first stab of playing swing with a pro level Big Band which clearly missed the mark conceptually speaking from an ensemble point of view in a true jazz swing sense on the early clip. Fair honest observation{s}. Get over it and stop with the blind hero worship routine. Enough already........

If you are going to play Big Band jazz ensemble music on a world stage with world class seasoned Big Band players all comments about how you delivered {or didn't deliver} the goods is open turf to comment on from an ensemble point of view IMO

That's life.... deal with it......... which at least Neil sounds like he did to his credit as a positive example and step to follow for others in the same learning position regarding playing good swing.
 
M

Mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Get over yourselves, and don't say anything if you don't have anything to add that educates or inspires. No matter if you have the right to.

Actually, this thread does educate. Education does not consist of simply praising other drummers, but also critique. Critique is important - it's how we learn our weaknesses and improve upon them and critiquing the weaknesses of other musicians lets us see the mistakes that we'd like not to make.
 

drumtechdad

Gold Member
Look...


You guys miss the boat completely.

It's a memorial concert, for cryin' out loud!!!

Why you bustin' on NP?

Get over yourselves, and don't say anything if you don't have anything to add that educates or inspires. No matter if you have the right to.

Move on already. Geeez!

I don't think anyone was "bustin' on NP," as most of the posters said how great he is and he can't swing. Those two things are not incompatible.

Look: you post, you get responses. I thought that was the point. You don't like the responses, tough titty. This thread is an education; for you, to realize that opposing opinions do not hurt anyone (yourself or NP), and for everyone to realize that greatness in one genre does not necessarily carry over to another, although there are exceptions as noted.

And, this thread inspired a wonderful thread full of videos of swing drummers demonstrating how it's done.

If you stifle debate, no one learns anything. We get rather too much of "the time for talk is over" in other aspects of our lives.

Thank You Michael! My sediments exactly! Well, Said!

Who wants this one? Oooops, too late!

Carry on.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I don't think anyone was "bustin' on NP," as most of the posters said how great he is and he can't swing. Those two things are not incompatible.

Look: you post, you get responses. I thought that was the point. You don't like the responses, tough titty. This thread is an education; for you, to realize that opposing opinions do not hurt anyone (yourself or NP), and for everyone to realize that greatness in one genre does not necessarily carry over to another, although there are exceptions as noted.

And, this thread inspired a wonderful thread full of videos of swing drummers demonstrating how it's done.

If you stifle debate, no one learns anything. We get rather too much of "the time for talk is over" in other aspects of our lives.




Who wants this one? Oooops, too late!

Carry on.
I equated it to when you are watching a rerun of a sporting event from years ago and the current time commentator finds a flaw in the performance of one of the athletes. The sports commentator keeps talking about it. (Tennis commentators love to do this when they are showing an old match on TV because of a rain delay in the current match that they are there to comment on)
I always think this to myself, "OK, It was years ago, It happened, So What does that have to do with right now? That player isn't the same as He/She was years ago."
I turn the sound to mute and I just watch and enjoy the old match.
We are talking about something that NP did years ago.
 
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GruntersDad

Honorary Lifetime CEO
Staff member
Years ago yes, but because he is a contemporary drummer he will be open for criticism. Nobody seems to have a problem with criticizing Ringos play with the Beatles 40 years ago. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. In the clip played, NP wasn't that good. If you don't want criticism on a 6 year old clip, don't post a 6 year old clip. No one was criticizing the man only the performance. Time to get over it.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Nobody seems to have a problem with criticizing Ringos play with the Beatles 40 years ago.
Actually, That kind of thing does rattle my cage quite a bit! Along with picking on concert toms, open faced pillow stuffed bass drums, and thumpy toms of the 1960s. These things were part of history. It was the way that it was at that instant in time! We should simply accept them and view them for what they were. True, we can learn from them, It,s not fair to say that someone can't swing based on one performance in their career!
Monday morning Quarterbacks always know how to win the game!
 
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GruntersDad

Honorary Lifetime CEO
Staff member
That, in part, was my point. Why show a 6 year old clip if that drummers chops have improved in that genre. Anyone who has been an attendee of this forum for any length of time knows that all posts are fair game, and will be criticized. As long as they aren't rude, crude or unattractive. Again, no on was ragging on Peart the guy, just the performance and I see no wrong in that.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Let's look at it from this perspective. I love Swing music, all of the great masters of it, and the graceful way that they play Swing. I enjoyed seeing Neil play swing the way that he did.
I liked the rock style hitting as it was applied to the swing tune. It was something different to watch and hear. I put aside my notions of Swing, and I viewed the performance as it was. I loved the solo also!
Niel played swing like Neil! He was being himself! I can't fault him for that!
 

Deltadrummer

Platinum Member
Sorry, but how does that work? Nobody is beyond critique.

Take an actor you really like. Now, has that actor ever been in a bad film? ALL actors have been in a bad film - so the answer there is a solid yes. Are we allowed to make that point clear? Yes. Does it help the actor improve and choose better films in the future? Yes. Now replace 'actor' with 'musician' or 'drummer'.


Even Einstein has his critics.

I think there is a lack of respect for criticism in music. That is what separates popular and classical music. But try to argue against Wagner to a Wagnerite or Schoenberg to a serialist. And then you have Buddy and Peart, the two sacred cows of drum-dom.

Entering into a critical discourse can help to deepen your understanding of a drummer or any artist. You throw ideas around. You agree. You disagree. There are always going to be artists who you don't like. I would hope people would have that much of an artistic palette to actually not like something. I try to be as open as possible to music. But you have to be able to say that some stuff is just crap.
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I would like to put things this way. I have seen and heard both Neil Peart and Buddy Rich lay down things on a drum kit that made my mouth drop open and I was humbled in awe at what both of these men, and many others that are in their league could do with rhythms!

I have been playing for many years, I know a great drummer when I see one! I will not sit quietly on the sidelines while people nit-pic drummers that are truly worth honorable mention.

Monica; We haven't heard from you since your OP? What have you to say about this? I love you, but this post and run stuff puzzles me. Come on girl! What is, and/or was on your mind? You weren't doing the old stir the pot, make trouble, and run thing? Were ya? I know that you have more guts than that!
 
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