Neil is to blame...

The whole hating on Lars thing started when he decided to go against Napster, everyone was mad because they were getting "free music" and Lars was trying to take that away. But as we know Lars was right and the downloaded music ruined ...or changed for the worst the entire music industry.
So since then, everyone chooses to focus not on Lars contributions to music but on his personality and on every mistake he ever made.
But, he is not only the drummer but in reality he is Metallica's front man even before James Hetfield, and has managed to take the band to the top and keep it there for over 40 years, so like him or not, you can't deny the man has been doing something right in order to achieve that, and I can only respect that.
 
I was sort of out of Metallica by the time the Napster stuff happened, and have not really been in touch with them since they became a grunge band. I didn't realize that we were supposed to hate Lars until I heard about it here a few years ago.

I always thought he was an ok drummer, but not the best from that era and style.

to me, Charlie Benante is the best drummer form "The Big Four" (Anthrax, Megadeth, Metallica, Slayer)
 
Yuck. Histrionics and interpersonal conflict isn't my bag.
There's a short scene where Lars begins playing/tracking and it was so bad I thought he was drunk or heavily drugged. Perhaps he was laying down garbage to provoke his bandmates. Either way, it was ugly. I felt sorry for Bob Rock, the producer, for having to deal with it all.

The whole hating on Lars thing started when he decided to go against Napster, everyone was mad because they were getting "free music" and Lars was trying to take that away. But as we know Lars was right and the downloaded music ruined ...or changed for the worst the entire music industry.
So since then, everyone chooses to focus not on Lars contributions to music but on his personality and on every mistake he ever made.
But, he is not only the drummer but in reality he is Metallica's front man even before James Hetfield, and has managed to take the band to the top and keep it there for over 40 years, so like him or not, you can't deny the man has been doing something right in order to achieve that, and I can only respect that.
For me, it was the hypocrisy. Metallica gave away cassette tapes of their music for several years in order to build a following. Once they were making money, it was a no-no. pft.

From my perspective, as someone who has helped musicians record and publish their own work, I'm glad the stranglehold on music distribution by the labels is gone. In every biography/autobiography I've read, the labels screwed the artists. Warner Bros. being the worst.
 
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The whole hating on Lars thing started when he decided to go against Napster, everyone was mad because they were getting "free music" and Lars was trying to take that away.
Well, I respectfully disagree, because I was there when it all happened. The hate for Lars started before Napster because Lars was "caught slipping", so to speak, several times during live performances of the time.
Also, he did a magazine interview (Hit Parader maybe?) during the recording sessions for The Black Album saying that his new favorite drummer was Chris Slade. Chris is a great drummer, but not a thrash drummer at all. So a few weeks before the album was released, we were already panicking that the album was going to suck. It took me almost 20 years to accept that "my band" had changed styles.
Now I see that album as a great Hard Rock classic, but at the time, a lot of original Metallica fans were turning their backs on the band, and there was a whole new crop of new fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.
 
Well, I respectfully disagree, because I was there when it all happened. The hate for Lars started before Napster because Lars was "caught slipping", so to speak, several times during live performances of the time.
Also, he did a magazine interview (Hit Parader maybe?) during the recording sessions for The Black Album saying that his new favorite drummer was Chris Slade. Chris is a great drummer, but not a thrash drummer at all. So a few weeks before the album was released, we were already panicking that the album was going to suck. It took me almost 20 years to accept that "my band" had changed styles.
Now I see that album as a great Hard Rock classic, but at the time, a lot of original Metallica fans were turning their backs on the band, and there was a whole new crop of new fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.

that was/is pretty much me. All of the jocks who were making fun of me for liking Metallica were all of the sudden my "best friends".... nope. Go away, and take the grunge band with you.

The Black Album did not let me down, but everything after did for sure...
 
Well, I respectfully disagree, because I was there when it all happened. The hate for Lars started before Napster because Lars was "caught slipping", so to speak, several times during live performances of the time.
Also, he did a magazine interview (Hit Parader maybe?) during the recording sessions for The Black Album saying that his new favorite drummer was Chris Slade. Chris is a great drummer, but not a thrash drummer at all. So a few weeks before the album was released, we were already panicking that the album was going to suck. It took me almost 20 years to accept that "my band" had changed styles.
Now I see that album as a great Hard Rock classic, but at the time, a lot of original Metallica fans were turning their backs on the band, and there was a whole new crop of new fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.
“New fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.”

Explain more about how the attire of some of their fans caused you to like the band less.

IMG_3378.jpeg
 
“New fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.”

Explain more about how the attire of some of their fans caused you to like the band less.

View attachment 151845
The black album came in August 12 1991, Lars sued Napster in April 13 2000, the black album had been out for many years and Metallica was at the top, If anything I remember hating And Justice For All (not really hating but I didn't feel like it was the same band) then I felt the black album was then selling out. but yes the real hate for Lars came from the Napster suit and not from the black album.
 
“New fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.”

Explain more about how the attire of some of their fans caused you to like the band less.

View attachment 151845

glad to see that the original three of the original four are at the top.

the Black Album was my last touch to them.

as far as the fan base changing, for me, it wasn't the look, but the attitude. Metallica had been a "band for the nerds/outcasts/misfits" from the beginning. A middle finger to all of the mainstream shlock that was out in the early/mid-80's. Persinally, as they became more popular, I was hoping they would keep their main focus on fast, loud and "F-U" going, and expose that to the mainstream, but instead, they "softened up" and became safe. That is what let me down the most. and t hat brought in a fan base of what we called "posers" back in the day. People who wanted the image, but not the lifestyle I guess.

We always joked that Metallica became one of those bands that the soccer moms would put the "alhoa" thumb and pinky hand sign up to instead of the metal horns sign b/c they didn't really get the culture, but wanted to sort of be a part of it. To me, that misuse of hand signs was super cringy. Non-metal heads from the 80's are probably thinking I am stragne b/c that bothers me, but it was like people glomming on to something that they made fun of at one point, just to be cool.

sort of like in the 2000's when being a nerd all the sudden became "cool", and all of these people who would normally make fun of nerdy stuff were trying to be "part of the group" with out going through the "hazing process"...

weirdness....I know...
 
glad to see that the original three of the original four are at the top.

the Black Album was my last touch to them.

as far as the fan base changing, for me, it wasn't the look, but the attitude. Metallica had been a "band for the nerds/outcasts/misfits" from the beginning. A middle finger to all of the mainstream shlock that was out in the early/mid-80's. Persinally, as they became more popular, I was hoping they would keep their main focus on fast, loud and "F-U" going, and expose that to the mainstream, but instead, they "softened up" and became safe. That is what let me down the most. and t hat brought in a fan base of what we called "posers" back in the day. People who wanted the image, but not the lifestyle I guess.

We always joked that Metallica became one of those bands that the soccer moms would put the "alhoa" thumb and pinky hand sign up to instead of the metal horns sign b/c they didn't really get the culture, but wanted to sort of be a part of it. To me, that misuse of hand signs was super cringy. Non-metal heads from the 80's are probably thinking I am stragne b/c that bothers me, but it was like people glomming on to something that they made fun of at one point, just to be cool.

sort of like in the 2000's when being a nerd all the sudden became "cool", and all of these people who would normally make fun of nerdy stuff were trying to be "part of the group" with out going through the "hazing process"...

weirdness....I know...

Didn't realize there is a whole sociological tribalism narrative needed to select a musical group.

Is it OK for Son of Vistalite Black to listen to Metallica without a hazing ritual or an association with jocks, dweebs, nerds, dillweeds, fish bros, stoners, preps or burnouts? There was a stinging realization when attending a Metallica gig several years ago that outside observers would associate me with the thousands of men in their upper-50s and 60s streaming into the arena dressed in a nearly identical uniform of jeans and black Metallica shirts (though my shirt almost certainly supported musicians with a far more selective fan base).
 
glad to see that the original three of the original four are at the top.

the Black Album was my last touch to them.

as far as the fan base changing, for me, it wasn't the look, but the attitude. Metallica had been a "band for the nerds/outcasts/misfits" from the beginning. A middle finger to all of the mainstream shlock that was out in the early/mid-80's. Persinally, as they became more popular, I was hoping they would keep their main focus on fast, loud and "F-U" going, and expose that to the mainstream, but instead, they "softened up" and became safe. That is what let me down the most. and t hat brought in a fan base of what we called "posers" back in the day. People who wanted the image, but not the lifestyle I guess.

We always joked that Metallica became one of those bands that the soccer moms would put the "alhoa" thumb and pinky hand sign up to instead of the metal horns sign b/c they didn't really get the culture, but wanted to sort of be a part of it. To me, that misuse of hand signs was super cringy. Non-metal heads from the 80's are probably thinking I am stragne b/c that bothers me, but it was like people glomming on to something that they made fun of at one point, just to be cool.

sort of like in the 2000's when being a nerd all the sudden became "cool", and all of these people who would normally make fun of nerdy stuff were trying to be "part of the group" with out going through the "hazing process"...

weirdness....I know...
I have always been the lone wolf, even since I was very little, I remember all the way back to 4 or 5 years old not following the "group leader".
I was not a weird kid, I just did my own thing, and I guess thanks to my mom, I had more advanced knowledge of things for my years so I always felt like I gained nothing by following someone because everyone else thought they were cool. (I am not claiming to be smarter, just that my mom never baby talked to me and always tried to make sure I was well educated and well read, I had read over 1000 books before the age of 14 so my view of the world was very different from that of my peers).
I also since then I believe not in re-inventing the wheel but improving it or discovering my own better way. Once I became a teenager this lead to people following me instead of me following them. I never asked for this but it happened. I also never wanted to follow what everyone else was doing (all the sheep) so all those bands and things that I grew up watching or listening to, (that are now considered cool), but back then I was the outcast, the one that didn't "conform".. (ugh I hate that word).

I don't feel Metallica became safe, I feel they naturally evolved and wanted to play something different. I can't imagine them making 10 albums in the vein of Master Of Puppets, how boring would that be? there are bands that have done that and are still somehow successful but I believe I am smarter than to be buying the same thing over and over (kind of like those people that keep buying the Madden video game or any other franchise sports video game which is basically the same game with very minor changes). ACDC is one of those bands that have changed very little in their entire career, made very similar record and yet remain successful.
I Respect Metallica for not doing that, they would probably be less relevant now which would be a shame, I want future generations to at least listen to their music and I can guarantee they will like at least one of the albums because there is so much variety among them.
 
Didn't realize there is a whole sociological tribalism narrative needed to select a musical group.

you must have neer been a teen ager....

Is it OK for Son of Vistalite Black to listen to Metallica without a hazing ritual or an association with jocks, dweebs, nerds, dillweeds, fish bros, stoners, preps or burnouts? There was a stinging realization when attending a Metallica gig several years ago that outside observers would associate me with the thousands of men in their upper-50s and 60s streaming into the arena dressed in a nearly identical uniform of jeans and black Metallica shirts (though my shirt almost certainly supported musicians with a far more selective fan base).

again, this was just narrative from my perspective. I wasn't laying down laws for others to follow. You can like whatever you like, as long as you stay true to your beliefs/system, and it doesn't hurt others in the process.
 
I have always been the lone wolf, even since I was very little, I remember all the way back to 4 or 5 years old not following the "group leader".
I was not a weird kid, I just did my own thing, and I guess thanks to my mom, I had more advanced knowledge of things for my years so I always felt like I gained nothing by following someone because everyone else thought they were cool. (I am not claiming to be smarter, just that my mom never baby talked to me and always tried to make sure I was well educated and well read, I had read over 1000 books before the age of 14 so my view of the world was very different from that of my peers).
I also since then I believe not in re-inventing the wheel but improving it or discovering my own better way. Once I became a teenager this lead to people following me instead of me following them. I never asked for this but it happened. I also never wanted to follow what everyone else was doing (all the sheep) so all those bands and things that I grew up watching or listening to, (that are now considered cool), but back then I was the outcast, the one that didn't "conform".. (ugh I hate that word).

I grew up in the same kind of family, and read, but definitely not that much...there was too much drumming to do. But yeah. I never actively followed social groups. I happened to liek things others did, but not because the ytold me to. I becasme a Steelers fan because of Lynn Swann, not b/c I was surrounded by Steelers fans.
I becamea Rush fan becasue of Neil Peart, not becasue I was surrounded by other Rush fans
I became a BMX fan because the bikes looked cool, and it was fun to jump things, not because all of my freinds were doing it

I then happened to meet others with the same interests, but was never the guy who latched on to something b/c every one else told me to. I also don't remember anyone doing anythign because of me in my youth...

I don't feel Metallica became safe, I feel they naturally evolved and wanted to play something different. I can't imagine them making 10 albums in the vein of Master Of Puppets, how boring would that be? there are bands that have done that and are still somehow successful but I believe I am smarter than to be buying the same thing over and over (kind of like those people that keep buying the Madden video game or any other franchise sports video game which is basically the same game with very minor changes). ACDC is one of those bands that have changed very little in their entire career, made very similar record and yet remain successful.

I definitely get what you are saying. I guess for me - at the age I was when that all happened - I wasn't ready to look at it that way. And still to this day, anything I hear post- Black Album still is pretty "meh" to me...nothing has moved me like Ride The Lightning did when I first heard it.

This has happened to many other groups for me as well...not just Metallica.

I Respect Metallica for not doing that, they would probably be less relevant now which would be a shame, I want future generations to at least listen to their music and I can guarantee they will like at least one of the albums because there is so much variety among them.

given the album sales chart, I feel like they are still relevant for the older stuff...not the newer stuff....
 
I don't understand "blame"

Blame implies something bad happened.

Well, other than the St Anger album, That was bad,
 
"I had read over 1000 books before the age of 14." That's more than 111 a year from age five-14. Congrats.

Did you read the "My Father's Dragon" series? Dragons apparently love Skunk Cabbage. Didn't occur to me until much later that it was a reference to mythical flying animals enjoying the cheeba.
I can read a 700 to a 1000 page book in a few hours. My mom had a big book collection that I started reading seriously since I was 7, so about 3 to 4 books a week minimum. Yes I had read over 1000 books in those 7 years and more after that. I don’t read as much anymore but still read occasionally. By the way there are 365 weeks in 7 years times 3 books is 1095, but I’m taking some off because of some times that I didn’t read. And some weeks I read 4 books and some not. A 300 page book is a very short book , it can be read in 3 hours.
 
Television Popcorn GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants
 
The whole hating on Lars thing started when he decided to go against Napster, everyone was mad because they were getting "free music" and Lars was trying to take that away. But as we know Lars was right and the downloaded music ruined ...or changed for the worst the entire music industry.
So since then, everyone chooses to focus not on Lars contributions to music but on his personality and on every mistake he ever made.
But, he is not only the drummer but in reality he is Metallica's front man even before James Hetfield, and has managed to take the band to the top and keep it there for over 40 years, so like him or not, you can't deny the man has been doing something right in order to achieve that, and I can only respect that.

But 99.9% of the full-time working drummers today could outplay him tomorrow on every Metallica song ever. And probably at least half of them could write better songs than he could as well. Lars mostly just got lucky.
 
Is it OK for Son of Vistalite Black to listen to Metallica without a hazing ritual or an association with jocks, dweebs, nerds, dillweeds, fish bros, stoners, preps or burnouts?
Oh, they're very popular, Son of Vistalite Black. The sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads—they all adore them. They think they're righteous dudes.
 
Well, I respectfully disagree, because I was there when it all happened. The hate for Lars started before Napster because Lars was "caught slipping", so to speak, several times during live performances of the time.
Also, he did a magazine interview (Hit Parader maybe?) during the recording sessions for The Black Album saying that his new favorite drummer was Chris Slade. Chris is a great drummer, but not a thrash drummer at all. So a few weeks before the album was released, we were already panicking that the album was going to suck. It took me almost 20 years to accept that "my band" had changed styles.
Now I see that album as a great Hard Rock classic, but at the time, a lot of original Metallica fans were turning their backs on the band, and there was a whole new crop of new fans that looked like college jock dudes at their concerts. Coincidentally, an eerily similar phenomenon happened with Guns & Roses in the same month.

Integrity matters. Money doesn’t change that.
 
Integrity matters. Money doesn’t change that.

but money usually does....which is the worst part. Humans throw out integrity for money most of the time, at least from what I see....
 
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