Name a song in which the drummer NEVER played for the song

Arky

Platinum Member
This is an interesting one,

http://youtu.be/XaPTH4O9sSY

Originally I thought the drumming was too flamboyant because it drew me away from the melody completely, now I'm convinced that it utterly makes the song.

Very interested to hear your options.
Makes completely sense to me - even at 1st listening. I wouldn't have considered those drums to be unappropriate in any way in the first place. It's a very vivid style but fits perfectly. Also I'm a bit surprised that this PoS song is much more to my liking than what I heard from them years ago. I wanted to stop the song after some 2.30 minutes first but then listened through ;-)

Just a hint to those who think the drums don't fit into a song... Often times replacing those 'weird' drums by more 'normal' ones would take away from the uniqueness of the tune which eventually be detrimental IMO, rendering the music more on the boring side.


Back on topic, @ the OP:
I don't know/remember any song in which the drummer NEVER played for the song (or even at some spots was 'annoying' to my ears). Well until 14 months I wasn't paying attention to the drum track in songs anyway, being a guitarist primarily. But since then it was quite the opposite - I'm regularly stunned by the cool and song supporting ideas drummers are coming up.
 
Last edited:

Swiss Matthias

Platinum Member
The question is:

Should a "song" (when is a song a song?) dictate the drum part,
or does every instrument - including the drummer - dictate how
the song should be going to sound?
 

Arky

Platinum Member
I think 'someone' should know how the song 'should sound like', what the general idea is all about and how to accomplish that to the utmost degree. This 'someone' could be the whole band, the producer alone (not the best case scenario IMO), one band member being the mastermind etc, any combinations possible. 'Best' meaning to make an artistic sonic statement to convey emotions.

Drums are merely one component contributing to the overall result, as are guitars or whatever instruments involved (including vocals, natural sounds, anything). So what is discussed in this topic can be transferred to any other instrument and some aspects aren't drum specific.

The same way individual components can spoil a song they can also add the right amount of spice (if needed) to build up to a better finished product.

(What I like with my original stuff is of course having full control so I don't have to fear anyone 'spoiling my original idea'... When I'm contributing to other people's music not being the mastermind it's a different story and compromises are inevitable. Which often end up being a good idea, sometimes better than what I created at first.)
 

Pachikara-Tharakan

Silver Member
This is an interesting one,

http://youtu.be/XaPTH4O9sSY

Originally I thought the drumming was too flamboyant because it drew me away from the melody completely, now I'm convinced that it utterly makes the song.

Very interested to hear your options.
Frost, sounds Keith Moonish (Tommy album) drumming to me.


yes, i agree with Pocket full of Gold and Arky's posts.

after all, whatever the drummer played, thats how the band (drummer, leader of the band, producer, song writer etc.. etc..) wanted us to hear, however we are all entitled to our own opinions, Thanks !!
 
Last edited:

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
This is an interesting one,

http://youtu.be/XaPTH4O9sSY

Originally I thought the drumming was too flamboyant because it drew me away from the melody completely, now I'm convinced that it utterly makes the song.

Very interested to hear your options.
It's overplaying to my ear, though I wouldn't have minded if he played a less counterpoint. I found he distracted from the vocalist (and everyone else). It's not drastic, maybe just halve the amount of fancy shit in certain parts of the song (which would still be heaps) and it would be great.

I like the song and the drum track - great stuff, Frosty, but I think it would be better if the drummer did a bit less talking and a bit more listening. Still, the part of me that likes Moonie, Elvin and Narada Michael Waldon can see how that drum track could grow on you. But to my ear those other three combine more with the other instruments.

Still, shredding all the time reduces the effect that mega skilled players like him and Thomas Pridgen create. Imagine if those guys held back and left more space before unleashing their chops.

Using light and shade adds meaning. Free time doesn't mean as much if there's no work to avoid, and work is drudge without breaks. Same principle. Light and shade.
 

inneedofgrace

Platinum Member
That Phil Collins break in "In The Air Tonight" isn't dumb to my ears...
Don't forget to consider that a finished piece of music was designed to be 'overall ready to go' and not necessarily please 'interest groups' - like e.g. drummers, guitarists. In this respect Phil (or the producer, or the band, or several persons involved) made a good decision.
What's interesting is that that song was a huge influence in me learning to play drums. As a matter of fact, I started to play shortly after that aong came out. I can't count the number of times I air drummed to it before picking up a pair of sticks.
 

Frost

Silver Member
It's overplaying to my ear, though I wouldn't have minded if he played a less counterpoint. I found he distracted from the vocalist (and everyone else). It's not drastic, maybe just halve the amount of fancy shit in certain parts of the song (which would still be heaps) and it would be great.

I like the song and the drum track - great stuff, Frosty, but I think it would be better if the drummer did a bit less talking and a bit more listening. Still, the part of me that likes Moonie, Elvin and Narada Michael Waldon can see how that drum track could grow on you. But to my ear those other three combine more with the other instruments.

Still, shredding all the time reduces the effect that mega skilled players like him and Thomas Pridgen create. Imagine if those guys held back and left more space before unleashing their chops.

Using light and shade adds meaning. Free time doesn't mean as much if there's no work to avoid, and work is drudge without breaks. Same principle. Light and shade.
I understand what you're saying completely, that was my first reaction entirely, but there are certain sections of the song where it just feels like the band are playing for the drummer and without the drums it wouldn't be the song it is.

It's certainly very technical, I doubt I'd ever be able to play it properly.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Polly just opened a new subject to think of for me, "Light and Shade", thanks . thats a good one and a new one to me.
I think of it as the old cliche of the busman's holiday ... based on the novel of that name. As Wikipedia puts it:
A "busman's holiday" is a holiday spent by a bus driver travelling on a bus: it is no break from his usual routine. By analogy, anyone who spends his holiday doing his normal job is taking a "busman's holiday".
So if we think of playing supportive grooves for the band as a drummer's work and think of the fills and other ornaments as a holiday, then a drummer who's playing fancy stuff all the time never experiences a "holiday" - it's all business as usual ... the flash becomes ho hum.

A spash of red can be dramatic on an otherwise monochrome painting. Not so interesting if the painting is all red ...


I understand what you're saying completely, that was my first reaction entirely, but there are certain sections of the song where it just feels like the band are playing for the drummer and without the drums it wouldn't be the song it is.

It's certainly very technical, I doubt I'd ever be able to play it properly.
Yes, in some sections the busy style works and I wouldn't want him to chance a thing. In other areas ... well, it's just my ears, but my ears say "too much showing off".

I KNOW I'll never be capable of playing what the drummer does in that song ... the idea is laughable! If I had different music tastes I'd be forced to do a LOT of shedding just to tread water ...
 

Frost

Silver Member
Yes, in some sections the busy style works and I wouldn't want him to chance a thing. In other areas ... well, it's just my ears, but my ears say "too much showing off".

I KNOW I'll never be capable of playing what the drummer does in that song ... the idea is laughable! If I had different music tastes I'd be forced to do a LOT of shedding just to tread water ...
Yeah... it has some incredibly complex sections.

I was curious who the drummer was to actually manage to pull that off and it turns out it's Léo Margarit, former Montpellier National Philharmonic Orchestra.

He's done a lot classical percussion studio work and has a Sonor endorsement.

I'm pretty surprised I haven't heard more of him.
 
Last edited:
Top