My Ludwig Family...

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Here's a few pics of them in different settings. We had a talented photographer friend of ours come to a few gigs and take some nice pics. Look how (maniacally) happy I am after playing these drums! I included one of my boy, who loves roadie duty...sometimes.
 

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sticks4drums

Guest
It isn't that they sound better, but it is the fact that the old stuff is hard to find which drives the price up. Supply and demand. Drums are much better built nowadays then the sometimes over loved good old days. It has been said on this forum many times.
 

Mendozart

Platinum Member
Killer kit zambizzi! That was very lucky to find those drums in the same finish. I really dig that white snare of yours, any more info on it would be cool.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
It isn't that they sound better, but it is the fact that the old stuff is hard to find which drives the price up. Supply and demand. Drums are much better built nowadays then the sometimes over loved good old days. It has been said on this forum many times.
You're half right. Naturally, scarcity means higher cost but if the drums sounded relatively poor, there'd be far fewer bidders chasing them, out in the market. It doesn't matter that they're *made* better today, we're talking about musical instruments, not machinery. Plenty of drums are made well and sound mediocre, or worse.

There is great demand for vintage drums, and vintage sounding drums today, because those drummers are looking for a particular sound that they were not finding in modern shells. This is why you're seeing manufacturers trying to recapture that sound again. Ludwig Legacy. Gretsch USA, New Classic, Renown, etc. DW Classics. C&C Drums. SJC and all the other trendy "custom" companies that are cranking out "vintage" kits for big bucks. These companies are making vintage style drums again, using modern manufacturing methods, because that's the sound that is in demand. Supply and demand.

I don't know how many times I've read about old vintage drums being used on big modern recordings, in place of whatever the drummer is endorsing. They don't do this because they want the record to sound terrible, right? You may not agree with it or like it, but the vintage sound AND look is in big demand these days.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Killer kit zambizzi! That was very lucky to find those drums in the same finish. I really dig that white snare of yours, any more info on it would be cool.
Thanks! The white snare was an eBay find. I love CM snares and when I heard Arctic Glitter was discontinued, I figured it'd be a nice collector's item, too. It's not old...I think it was made 2-3 years ago. Sounds incredible, of course.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Great gig pictures, & the kit looks superb!

Got to ask though, I see quite a few pictures of those dome style outdoor stages in the US. Clearly designed for acoustic projection back in the day. What's the sound like inside that dome with an amplified band? I'm thinking it must be a bit difficult to control the stage sound without dropping the volume a lot. Just curious.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Great gig pictures, & the kit looks superb!

Got to ask though, I see quite a few pictures of those dome style outdoor stages in the US. Clearly designed for acoustic projection back in the day. What's the sound like inside that dome with an amplified band? I'm thinking it must be a bit difficult to control the stage sound without dropping the volume a lot. Just curious.
Thank ya! This band is probably the loudest thing I've ever heard and definitely the loudest I've played in. Hearing this band on stage is always tricky. The sound up on stage was pretty rough...very reflective. I had a big monitor booming into my left ear (the only ear that really works), and I couldn't hear much of anything, very clearly.

When we talked to people later, they all seemed to think everything sounded great out in front though. I'm uploading a video from this show and will post it here when it finally finishes.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Thank ya! This band is probably the loudest thing I've ever heard and definitely the loudest I've played in. Hearing this band on stage is always tricky. The sound up on stage was pretty rough...very reflective. I had a big monitor booming into my left ear (the only ear that really works), and I couldn't hear much of anything, very clearly.

When we talked to people later, they all seemed to think everything sounded great out in front though. I'm uploading a video from this show and will post it here when it finally finishes.
I look forward to the video. I can imagine the reflection in that dome to be unreal. Great for a string quartet, but a rock band? Did you have a sound engineer FOH? If not, the good FOH sound must have been more by good luck than good judgement ;) Tricky gig!
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I look forward to the video. I can imagine the reflection in that dome to be unreal. Great for a string quartet, but a rock band? Did you have a sound engineer FOH? If not, the good FOH sound must have been more by good luck than good judgement ;) Tricky gig!
The sound guy was great...but it was 11am, 90 degrees, and we were the second band to go on. We were rushed up there and given 5 min. to setup, too. :\

Here we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYMq3pzS3ec

This is the most "pop/punk" sounding thing that we do...most of our stuff is actually a lot different than this. Here's some contrast (and a Mapex Saturn kit for our friend Stix.) Apparently I had a wardrobe malfunction, too. Watch for it!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xrg1gfZB1Oc
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
Very nice drums! I have followed your many kits over the years, and played a few of them, and this looks like a good setup.

Are the finishes identical - could you mix-and-match them to get anything from a mid-sized kit of 7-8 pieces, down to a busking 2-piecer?
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
Retro is cool right now and I think it's a trend that will fade with time. That being said, I don't think you're going to see a big vintage market for today's mass-produced drums, American, Asian, or otherwise. The market is completely saturated, spilling over, and oozing all over the floor.

There is something to be said about that retro sound, which is why the 50's-70's vintage kits are fetching such a big price. Modern kits just don't sound as good to me (and obviously, a huge portion of the drum-consuming market.) These drums are a modern twist on a vintage sound...best of both worlds.

Let's face it - until you own *something* Ludwig, all the cool kids are going to continue making fun of you. ;)
Very true. Anything vintage is hot. Look at vintage electric guitars - just the vintage factor pushes their prices into tens of thousands of dollars. Do they sound any "better" than a new guitar with finer machining and more exotic materials that costs a fraction? Totally subjective. A huge part of the vintage sound was calfskin heads, but hardly anyone plays those anymore, so vintage shells are at least a feeble nod to the originals. I think a new CB700 set would sound totally vintage if fitted with calfskin heads and tuned correctly.

Heck, even some new drums may be overpriced, but people are willing to pay for a badge - a brand new one that says DW, or a 70-year-old one that says Ludwig. Assuming the sound is good enough, other factors come into play: unusual construction, rare woods, vintage pedigree, expensive badge, played by a celebrity, etc.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Very nice drums! I have followed your many kits over the years, and played a few of them, and this looks like a good setup.

Are the finishes identical - could you mix-and-match them to get anything from a mid-sized kit of 7-8 pieces, down to a busking 2-piecer?
Thanks, man! I can certainly mix it up. The stain is visibly identical across both kids, so they all look good together. I could throw that second 16" into my setup, a la Buddy Rich, and just tune it lower than the other. I would definitely like to get out and do some busking when it warms up. All I need is a riser for the 16"...I have the legs already...and I could toss the 13" to my right as a little floor tom. Maybe you could recommend a clever hardware setup to make this easy to haul around?

Very true. Anything vintage is hot. Look at vintage electric guitars - just the vintage factor pushes their prices into tens of thousands of dollars. Do they sound any "better" than a new guitar with finer machining and more exotic materials that costs a fraction? Totally subjective. A huge part of the vintage sound was calfskin heads, but hardly anyone plays those anymore, so vintage shells are at least a feeble nod to the originals. I think a new CB700 set would sound totally vintage if fitted with calfskin heads and tuned correctly.

Heck, even some new drums may be overpriced, but people are willing to pay for a badge - a brand new one that says DW, or a 70-year-old one that says Ludwig. Assuming the sound is good enough, other factors come into play: unusual construction, rare woods, vintage pedigree, expensive badge, played by a celebrity, etc.
Yep, that's what it boils down to. It's purely subjective. Do these producers who insist on vintage gear, in the studio, really hear something? Can drummers really hear a difference between vintage drums and a modern equivalent?

What do you hear?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MtHwMOCllg

Even if we're just talking about "psychic value", it's something that the individual values, subjectively. Can't argue w/ the preferences of others.

I don't think a CB kit would sound the same as real vintage tubs, w/ the same calfskin heads, if compared side-by-side. They might be close but there are other variables. Vintage drums are said to "dry out" over time and warm up, as a result. Edges also have a huge influence in sound, which is why drum companies are cutting vintage edges now, in pursuit of that throwback sound. I think you could get convincingly close, however.
 

jt.mcrae

Senior Member
Loving the pics and really nice kits. Does the younger boy play yet? That's how I first got into the trade, being roadie for dad. It's a good way to pass on not only the love of drumming, but also the knowledge behind set up, tear down and tuning, things that in my opinion are not taught well enough by a lot of teachers
Jackson
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Zambizzi. Really enjoyed that comparison video you put up.

Of the three kits I actually liked the 2009 Ludwig the best and the Slingerland the least. The older Ludwig had a lovely 14" (I think) floor tom but I think the 2009 Ludwig had a better rack tom, larger floor tom and kick.

That was a very interesting video. Thanks for sharing that.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Loving the pics and really nice kits. Does the younger boy play yet? That's how I first got into the trade, being roadie for dad. It's a good way to pass on not only the love of drumming, but also the knowledge behind set up, tear down and tuning, things that in my opinion are not taught well enough by a lot of teachers
Jackson
Thanks! He certainly does! He might have played more gigs than I did, over the summer. He has a band with a younger friend of his, called "Detonate". The singer/guitarist just turned 10 and my son is 12. I'll post some video of them, once I upload some of the newer ones. They're much better than you might expect, for their ages!

You're right - teachers don't go into that kind of detail, often enough. He can setup and teardown with the best of them, now. Thankfully I had a good teacher and followed him around to enough of his gigs, to get some of those important tips. Of course, I learned a TON from just reading around the forums. This site is a treasure-trove.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Zambizzi. Really enjoyed that comparison video you put up.

Of the three kits I actually liked the 2009 Ludwig the best and the Slingerland the least. The older Ludwig had a lovely 14" (I think) floor tom but I think the 2009 Ludwig had a better rack tom, larger floor tom and kick.

That was a very interesting video. Thanks for sharing that.
Good one, eh? I found that one last night, while on a YouTube frenzy. I agree 100% with your assessment - the '09 Legacy kick sounds best, overall. The drums seem more consistent, whereas the vintage kits were hit-and-miss. The small vintage Ludwig floor tom was a stand-out, for sure. I didn't think the vintage Ludwig kick was nearly as nice as the newer one. I thought the Slingerland kit sounded really nice, overall...but the small tom was a little flat compared to the other kits.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
I just thought that the Slingerland was far too dry but especially the rack tom. In a gig scenario, I hugely doubt it would make much difference and I would enjoy any of the three but that newer Ludwig made me realise why people still buy the brand despite the occasionally patchy quality control. They really do sound great.

This makes me want to get my 'big kit' (it's a 22", but it's bigger than my 16"!) out again, re-head it and give it a good bashing. When I can afford a full set of new heads, I might just do that!
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I just thought that the Slingerland was far too dry but especially the rack tom. In a gig scenario, I hugely doubt it would make much difference and I would enjoy any of the three but that newer Ludwig made me realise why people still buy the brand despite the occasionally patchy quality control. They really do sound great.

This makes me want to get my 'big kit' (it's a 22", but it's bigger than my 16"!) out again, re-head it and give it a good bashing. When I can afford a full set of new heads, I might just do that!
Yeah, they're remarkable to my ears, too. I can hear Ludwig drums on albums and recognize the sound, but I can't do that with other brands. Like Steve Gorman said, "It's the drum sound I hear in my head."

The QC is a big problem, IMO. I might have experienced more than others have, but I know for a fact that it's a fairly widespread issue with them. You can read it all over the forums, and two dealers here in town each had their own horror story to tell me. I guess I just like the punishment, apparently.
 

Deathmetalconga

Platinum Member
Thanks, man! I can certainly mix it up. The stain is visibly identical across both kids, so they all look good together. I could throw that second 16" into my setup, a la Buddy Rich, and just tune it lower than the other. I would definitely like to get out and do some busking when it warms up. All I need is a riser for the 16"...I have the legs already...and I could toss the 13" to my right as a little floor tom. Maybe you could recommend a clever hardware setup to make this easy to haul around?
I would suggest a cocktail-inspired setup which would require minimal conversion. Use one of your 16 floor toms as a combination tom/bass drum. Just get a conversion bracket that will attach your bass pedal to a couple of the floor tom legs. HB Drums would probably sell you one a la carte. You'll also need to modify a pedal to strike upwards.

You'd still play seated and you'd have to decide what all stands, cymbals and toms you'd like. At the very least, you'd basically be cutting out one of the bass drums.

I have seen a few of these converted kits and they sound swell. They don't have quite the compactness or cool factor of real cocktail drums, but they require minimal investment of time and money and there is relatively little technique that must be re-learned, unlike a standing cocktail set.

Some people mistakenly call this modification a cocktail drum, but for nose-in-the-air purists like me, if you ain't standing, it ain't cocktail.
 
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