My first deer!

someguy01

Platinum Member
For the record: I am not a hunter. Like @felonious69 I have no time for sitting in a tree for hours freezing my sac waiting for Bambi to wander by. I have plenty of friends who hunt, and they are all ethical hunters so we have no issues. If you hunt for food, we're good; if you hunt for heads and trophies, well, you're a dick IMO. Humans have taken over so much habitat, deer especially, that they now have a duty to cull the deer population to avoid disease outbreaks and starvation.
I pose this: would you rather some of our fellow members off a few deer for some dinners or would you prefer that we bulldoze entire developments and displace 1000s of people so the white tail have some more room?
Spoiler: no one comes out 100% happy.

As someone who is deeply involved in sustainability, animal welfare, animal rescue organizations, and environmental advocacy groups I always cringe when I see these types of threads come up. Against my better judgment, I ultimately always decide to contribute because this is an issue I feel so passionate about even though I know I am outnumbered.

In prior years, I worked with meat and poultry packaging plants, and have seen the full gamut of commercial and small-scale “ethical” processing of meat. These experiences ultimately caused me to go vegan several years ago and leave the industry.

People need to open their eyes and better understand where their food comes from and the choices they are making. And accept the fact that no animal willingly offers itself up to be consumed, whether it is being farmed or hunted. Are we ok terminating the life of an animal when many of us would lead equally healthy lives with a more plant-based diet?
I fully appreciate your stewardship in these areas and your advocacy, but I have always wanted to know why folks seem to think the solution is a plant based diet?
There are plenty of small, family owned ranches that grass feed their animals, use no hormones, and use no mechanical processing or packaging. I get all my beef, pork, and poultry from https://locavoredelivery.com/ Not only do I get humanely raised animals, I support local ranchers and farmers.
People watch some PETA propaganda and make extreme 180s. It's unnecessary. There are plenty of solutions. Your meats don't have to only come from Smithfield, Perdue, Tyson, or JBS.
When I lived in NC, I used to go to the small farms on the border with VA and get fresh beef from the farmers. It's out there, people just need to do the leg work.
I'm all for people wanting to eat more greens, but they also need to be taught how to properly and sustainably farm. Too many of them think they just plant and harvest. They don't know about cover cropping, rotation, or companion planting.
Even if you are vegetarian, the food you eat comes at the expense of habitat.
Thank you for saying this. It also comes at the expense of soil and air cleansing, as plants do both.

Edit: Factory produce farming is as equally unhealthy for the population and the planet as factory ranching.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
For the record: I am not a hunter. Like @felonious69 I have no time for sitting in a tree for hours freezing my sac waiting for Bambi to wander by. I have plenty of friends who hunt, and they are all ethical hunters so we have no issues. If you hunt for food, we're good; if you hunt for heads and trophies, well, you're a dick IMO. Humans have taken over so much habitat, deer especially, that they now have a duty to cull the deer population to avoid disease outbreaks and starvation.
I pose this: would you rather some of our fellow members off a few deer for some dinners or would you prefer that we bulldoze entire developments and displace 1000s of people so the white tail have some more room?
Spoiler: no one comes out 100% happy.


I fully appreciate your stewardship in these areas and your advocacy, but I have always wanted to know why folks seem to think the solution is a plant based diet?
There are plenty of small, family owned ranches that grass feed their animals, use no hormones, and use no mechanical processing or packaging. I get all my beef, pork, and poultry from https://locavoredelivery.com/ Not only do I get humanely raised animals, I support local ranchers and farmers.
People watch some PETA propaganda and make extreme 180s. It's unnecessary. There are plenty of solutions. Your meats don't have to only come from Smithfield, Perdue, Tyson, or JBS.
When I lived in NC, I used to go to the small farms on the border with VA and get fresh beef from the farmers. It's out there, people just need to do the leg work.
I'm all for people wanting to eat more greens, but they also need to be taught how to properly and sustainably farm. Too many of them think they just plant and harvest. They don't know about cover cropping, rotation, or companion planting.

Thank you for saying this. It also comes at the expense of soil and air cleansing, as plants do both.

Edit: Factory produce farming is as equally unhealthy for the population and the planet as factory ranching.

Thanks for your thoughts here. I don't want to hijack the thread here and recognize others may have different views on what is a deeply personal matter. But my perspective on adopting plant-based diet (in addition to the environmental and wellness benefits) are primarily founded on my morals. I believe that animals have rights as sentient beings as they exhibit fear, joy, pain, etc.. Raising and killing animals for food when we have plentiful alternatives is morally wrong.
 

felonious69

Gold Member
Don't know the specifics of that particular video but one thing that always amazes me is the people that have absolutely zero amount of healthy respect for animals. From the folks getting in bear, big cat whatever cages to the folks exiting their vehicle in wildlife preserves.
These things are not generally fluffy little puff puffs that you can snuggle with.
A lot of them can and might easily kill you!
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
A lot of them can and might easily kill you!
Even after being shot:


Stuff like this happens a lot. I even remember a story where a turkey hunter put the bird and his shotgun in the trunk of his vehicle. The bird wasnt dead, started thrashing around, caught the trigger with his claw, and shot the hunter.
 

A J

Active Member
Hunting safety is no joke. Every year someone is killed or injured while hunting. Although I'm a fledgling hunter, I'm experienced with firearms. I'm a retired US Army officer and combat veteran. Even so, I never get sloppy with weapons. I never take a short cut. Every time I handle a weapon, it's serious business.

What's never serious, however; is smack talk amongst band members. Hunting gives me more fuel for the fire. Last night at band practice I gave our guitar player (and experienced deer hunter) a hard time about not helping me gut my deer.

"I guess you must not have received my text."
"Maybe your phone is broken."
"Perhaps I misunderstood your heartfelt promise that you'd always be available to help me."

The other clowns in the band chimed in with their own harassing comments.

Good times.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
That’s wonderful - kudos to you and for sure we have plenty we agree on.

My hope is that maybe one day you will come to see the animals that live on the land as equally deserving protection. 👍

Just playing devil's advocate here, but are we expected also to protect animals from their natural predators in the wild? As horrific as it is for the prey, is killing your food not clearly a natural part of life on Earth?

I don't hunt, and I'm disgusted by what I perceive as a blood lust that drives most humans to hunt. They just want to kill something. But I don't criticize them (well except for just now lol) because my bleeding heart doesn't do a thing for the animals, since I too eat meat.
 

The Shepherd

Active Member
I don't hunt, and I'm disgusted by what I perceive as a blood lust that drives most humans to hunt. They just want to kill something. But I don't criticize them (well except for just now lol) because my bleeding heart doesn't do a thing for the animals, since I too eat meat.

I'm not a bloodthirsty savage who loves shooting animals and painting my face with their blood. I shoot deer because they are tasty animals. I got into hunting because my brother in law moved out to the country and he's been hurting since a kid. So, I started tagging along with him. Extra deer tags means more meat possibly.

That's all I hunt. I don't hunt coyotes because we don't eat them. I don't hunt turkeys (too hard), ducks (we have domestic geese, ducks and chickens for meat birds), squirrels or any other woodland creatures. I read that there are feral hogs now living in Ontario and they are becoming a problem. I will start hunting them if they offer up tags. I could fill up my freezer with bacon, sausages and pork chops. Yessir, sign me up for that!

Since I live out in the country now too I have to blast a few raccoons every year that end up wandering too close to the house during the day. I don't consider that "fun" either, I'm just potentially stopping a large veterinarian bill on coming my way. Dog + raccoon = Stitches
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
I'm not a bloodthirsty savage who loves shooting animals and painting my face with their blood. I shoot deer because they are tasty animals. I got into hunting because my brother in law moved out to the country and he's been hurting since a kid. So, I started tagging along with him. Extra deer tags means more meat possibly.

That's all I hunt. I don't hunt coyotes because we don't eat them. I don't hunt turkeys (too hard), ducks (we have domestic geese, ducks and chickens for meat birds), squirrels or any other woodland creatures. I read that there are feral hogs now living in Ontario and they are becoming a problem. I will start hunting them if they offer up tags. I could fill up my freezer with bacon, sausages and pork chops. Yessir, sign me up for that!

Since I live out in the country now too I have to blast a few raccoons every year that end up wandering too close to the house during the day. I don't consider that "fun" either, I'm just potentially stopping a large veterinarian bill on coming my way. Dog + raccoon = Stitches

I hear you man, that makes perfect sense. I'm a member of several gun forums and these grown men will post pics of their latest thrill kill, some hog or squirrel with their face blown off the same way I post proud pics of a new drum set, and everyone makes jokes or says how cool it is.

Who does that??? What kind of adult takes out his phone to take pictures of the blown out eyeballs and brains of the animal they just killed? Then rushes home to UPLOAD THEM TO SOCIAL MEDIA? These are fathers, husbands?

Anyway, yeah I shouldn't have said "most hunters" but, it is a whole lot of them.
 

A J

Active Member
Just playing devil's advocate here, but are we expected also to protect animals from their natural predators in the wild? As horrific as it is for the prey, is killing your food not clearly a natural part of life on Earth?

I don't hunt, and I'm disgusted by what I perceive as a blood lust that drives most humans to hunt. They just want to kill something. But I don't criticize them (well except for just now lol) because my bleeding heart doesn't do a thing for the animals, since I too eat meat.

I'm saving my venison for special occasions, visiting friends and culinary masterpieces. Venison is far better than beef, chicken and pork. I intend to savor every morsel and give away select cuts to close friends. This Spring, I'll switch to fishing.

I'm actually a lousy fisherman, but enjoy the sport. Last year I caught, cleaned and ate a lot of panfish. Bigger fish like salmon, trout, pike and bass avoid me. Who knows? I might get lucky this year.

Next deer season, I intend to begin earlier and with a better plan. I found I'm good at sneaking through the woods and taking game at close range. Sitting in a brush pile waiting for something to walk by isn't for me. Stalking is gonna be my thing.
 

A J

Active Member
I hear you man, that makes perfect sense. I'm a member of several gun forums and these grown men will post pics of their latest thrill kill, some hog or squirrel with their face blown off the same way I post proud pics of a new drum set, and everyone makes jokes or says how cool it is.

Who does that??? What kind of adult takes out his phone to take pictures of the blown out eyeballs and brains of the animal they just killed? Then rushes home to UPLOAD THEM TO SOCIAL MEDIA? These are fathers, husbands?

Anyway, yeah I shouldn't have said "most hunters" but, it is a whole lot of them.
Gun forums? What gun forums are you a member of? I'd like to see firsthand these inappropriate photos and perhaps even call attention to them.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
Gun forums? What gun forums are you a member of? I'd like to see firsthand these inappropriate photos and perhaps even call attention to them.

Don't mistake my comments for displeasure with any site I'm a member of. I'm a paying member of two of them and proud, active member of the rest. It just happens that my interest is in guns, training and self defense, not "sharing" dead coyote pics.
 

Hewitt2

Senior Member
Just playing devil's advocate here, but are we expected also to protect animals from their natural predators in the wild? As horrific as it is for the prey, is killing your food not clearly a natural part of life on Earth?

I don't hunt, and I'm disgusted by what I perceive as a blood lust that drives most humans to hunt. They just want to kill something. But I don't criticize them (well except for just now lol) because my bleeding heart doesn't do a thing for the animals, since I too eat mea

Thank you for your insight and I respect your point of view on this.

I will answer that humans have choice as to what they wish to eat and whether they will inflict harm to get it, animals don’t. We can’t compel a predator in the wild to ignore its instincts and choose a plant-based option.

But it’s different for us. Yes our ancestors ate meat, but only as a component of their diet; remember that humans are omnivores. North Americans eat far more meat than needed to satisfy our dietary requirements and not enough fruits, veggies, nuts, and grains. Eating meat isn’t necessary for our health or survival, and you can be perfectly healthy avoiding it altogether, so I respectfully ask what is “natural” or inevitable about eating meats, particularly when you add in the horrors of the modern agricultural food chain to get that meat on your dinner table.

That process is the furthest from “natural” as you can get!
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
Humans are meant to eat meat, fish and yeah actually bugs, too. Trying other ways hasn't really had positive effects. Plants have their place as medicine, prebiotic fibers and some starches for those individuals who function better with some of those, but that's about it.

A clean kill and using all you can from the animal is the most ethical use of local resources one can ask for.

There are many ways that really hurt wild animals like destroying their habitat and general means to live and nourish themselves. Roads, dams, large fields, plantations and pollution.

Luckily, if a bit resourceful, everyone who has a garden should be able to actually grow most of the veggies they need.

I had reindeer and eggs for breakfast, but I'm also very soon starting next years crops. Meanwhile there is actually some kale, sage, rosemary and thyme out in the snow.

Modern fruits and grains are things that I generally consider doing more harm to your health than good. The vegan myth is pretty well disproven for those who dare continue educating themselves. I also speak somewhat from experience as I've pretty much tried everything at some point.

Grains are emergency food for when you can't get anything else or you happened to live in a time when the king and earl would take most of the good stuff for themselves.

I eat mostly local stuff, buy mostly quality gear that lasts, use my car only when I have to and don't waste energy heating up the whole house when not necessary. I think the sum of our footprints would put most vegans in the city to shame. I am actually quite conscious about it.

In any case.

Congratulations to AJ.
 
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I have always wanted to know why folks seem to think the solution is a plant based diet?
If you mainly buy at large supermarkets, it's the better alternative - maybe not exclusively vegetarian, but the world would benefit from less total meat consumption: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study
I like the idea of supporting local farmers that take care of their animals. Grazing land can also improve diversity, so I'm all for traditional ranching. And I'm not against hunting to keep an ecosystem balanced. The reality however is that most people don't buy at such places.
Thank you for saying this. It also comes at the expense of soil and air cleansing, as plants do both.
Animals also eat plants - it would be more efficient to have less pigs and chicken and grow vegetables directly for human consumption. https://ourworldindata.org/soy
 
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Hewitt2

Senior Member
Modern fruits and grains are things that I generally consider doing more harm to your health than good. The vegan myth is pretty well disproven for those who dare continue educating themselves.

🤨 People choosing to go it alone and “educate themselves” is all too common these days and leads to some unfortunate conclusions. Good luck to you.
 

felonious69

Gold Member
I don't have all the answers, but when someone like (I believe it was), Alicia Silverstone (Complete cupcake!) posts the statement:
"I would rather go naked than wear wool", I would say I prefer she goes naked too, but NOT because "wool".
Wool is a HAIRCUT!
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
🤨 People choosing to go it alone and “educate themselves” is all too common these days and leads to some unfortunate conclusions. Good luck to you.

As long as you're not hurting anyone, you can do exactly what you like.

If you don't enjoy growing and educating yourself, we have absolutely nothing in common.
 
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