My 0up3down crazy idea

Moldy

Silver Member
This is a repost from another forum, but I'd like to hear some more opinions on this wacky idea:

The following is a stream of consciousness. Fasten your seatbelts and follow the train, we'll all make it through this fine:

I'm not sure why, but I always enjoyed the deep, loud, booming tones larger drums can provide. I just do. I love boomy bass and I love toms that have thunder. This is probably why I went with a 1up2down configuration. Now, I hadn't been thinking about my sound for a while now simply because I can never practice with toms (living in an apartment complex does that). However, today I did a little drumset reshuffle to satisfy an experimentation urge.



While I was trying the setup out (with mutes on, of course), I noticed the 12" was a pain in the arse to reach. However, I never really pictured myself using it much anyway. In fact, playing around with the 14 and 16 felt natural, but everytime I threw the 12 in, I was thrown off. It's almost always been like this, though, no matter where I placed the 12"er.

And thus, the thought occured to me... do I even need the 12" tom? I love the left half of my kit and will not change it, save for possibly adding something (will touch on this in the next paragraph); The ride is so accessible, I *WANT* to use it, all the time. But the right side with its awkward 12" tom placement and cymbal booms that have to reach out very far looks unnatural and feels worse. What if I... got rid of the 12"er... so I guess that's my first big question: Are 12"/mounted toms really necessary and/or can I get by without them?

The second thought is that I love big boomy sounds... yes, a repeat of a thought, I know, but it ties back into how I began all of this. You see, I wanted to buy that 18" Mango burst tom for $240 a week or two ago... never did. However... it's still up for sale. And if I got rid of the 12"er, I could subsidize most, if not all, of this purchase (the only way I could realistically do this). The 18" would go on the left side of my hihat,



So my next question would be Is it practical/doable to play sounds with a 14/16/18 setup, all floor? In practical experience, I mean
Or of course, my newest creation... I call it "Tom Can Walk The Line":

 

Moldy

Silver Member
I'd also like to make clear that this is mostly theoretical discussion of the pros/cons and other random trivia related to such weird setups of toms. Don't jump down my throat and say "Do what feels best to you(me)".
 

Coldhardsteel

Gold Member
As the only one on the forum(at least to the extent of my knowledge) with a 0-up/5-down set-up, I would say that the least this set-up that you made on the DW kit creator would force you to grow into a completely new form. It would certainly be easier to use if you started using double, triple, and quadruple stroke rolls of you wanted to use the toms like a normal "linear" set-up. I find it would leave a lot of vertical room for cymbals.

But if you're not willing to fit into a crampt space, well... "Do what's comfortable". :p
 

DrumEatDrum

Platinum Member
Not much different than the set up Bill Bruford has been using for several years now.



I know Michael Cartellone went with a zero up 3 down set up for one Lynyrd Skynyrd tour.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Bill had two major thoughts behind that setup (you'll already know this DED but others might not).

1. Ergonomics. He feels it's more comfortable and logical to just move sideways than to move up and sideways.

2. To break up the standard kit formation that encourages fills to run from high to low (esp for a drummer who plays matched grip). BB's has always been keen to have an individual sound.
 

Pavlos

Senior Member
The first setup is very Jack White ish.

Whatever feels comfortable for you though is the key. I don't think you need a 12" if you don't think so. The only way you'll know for sure is by trying it.
 

Moldy

Silver Member
The first setup is very Jack White ish.

Whatever feels comfortable for you though is the key. I don't think you need a 12" if you don't think so. The only way you'll know for sure is by trying it.
Very astute observation. That's where I got the idea to try it. Dunno how he feels comfortable with it, though.

coldhardsteel, could you elaborate on the comment you made about rolls, please. I don't think I understand what you mean. And awesome that you have a 0up5down!

Thanks Pollyanna and DED, that's exactly one of the things I was looking for!
 

Moldy

Silver Member
Ah, I see what he did. He moved his largest tom over to his left, pushed his second floor tom towards his back and then put his mounted tom where the smallest floor tom would traditionally be in a 1up2down setup. Very interesting idea. I hadn't thought of it, honestly.

I'll reconfig my drums and post up a pic in a few minutes.

[EDIT] On second thought, not. I don't know how anyone does the split tom thing, unless they focus on one side or the other. I'd either have to push my seat back or stretch my back backwards to hit both the 14" and the 16" at the same time.
 
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Pavlos

Senior Member
Very astute observation. That's where I got the idea to try it. Dunno how he feels comfortable with it, though.
Thanks. Jack seems to do very well with his setup. I love his playing with the Dead Weather.

Just curious, I know you stated you love the thunder of the big toms, but don't you think you'll miss having just one in a higher range for a bit of flavor? Now you got me wanting to go mess with my setup just to hear what would come out without higher toms. : )

Also, how do you like to tune your snare to go with all these low toms?

I feel your pain though. I lived in an apartment for years. Really puts a damper on playing.
 

Moldy

Silver Member
Thanks. Jack seems to do very well with his setup. I love his playing with the Dead Weather.

Just curious, I know you stated you love the thunder of the big toms, but don't you think you'll miss having just one in a higher range for a bit of flavor? Now you got me wanting to go mess with my setup just to hear what would come out without higher toms. : )

Also, how do you like to tune your snare to go with all these low toms?

I feel your pain though. I lived in an apartment for years. Really puts a damper on playing.
Well, yes and no. My set came with a 10" tom and sometimes I miss it. But then I go to GC and hear a (tuned) 10" tom and remember how much I dislike the higher pitch. The 12" is about as small as I'm willing to go, and grudgingly at that. It doesn't resonate as much as I'd like (read: like a square tom), has a pitch I'm not too fond of and is kind of hard for me to place on my kit now. I dunno, I've just never really liked mounted toms...

I tune my snare fairly average... 84 on the DrumDial, "medium" tension by feel. I have a cast steel snare, though, so everything is loud and the pitch/ring ranges from "very present" to "ear splitting".

A large part of the motivation for this topic is because I'm still relatively new to drumming; I haven't gone into anything tom related with my drum teacher yet. The other big part is this deal for an 18x16 on eBay. It only gets more tempting due to the fact that Mapex discontinued my finish very recently. So I'm pondering my setup now while I still have the chance to buy stuff.
 

utdrummer

Senior Member
Moldy-- I'm liking what you did there. I think we're going to start seeing a lot of people change the way they see/think about their drum setups. I currently have two kits...one is a huge (15pc) Slingerland that I love to play on, and of course, I get a ton of responses on it, but it forces me to sit higher than I want. Reason being, I have two 24's. My other kit is a smaller Bop kit I made--8,10,12,14, 18 BD, 13 SD, two timbales,etc. I recently was thinking of moving everything around to get more comfortable with the kit when I tried moving the bass to the left side. I bought an inexpensive lefty dbl pedal and this setup totally works for me. Everything is SO much lower and I end up on the right side anyway, so it was a perfect match for me. What the heck,,,we can always change it if it's not working. BTW,,,I even tried the larger Slingerland kit in this setup and this may be how I play drums for the rest of my life. Or next week. Here's what I'm banging on just for grins...
 

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harryconway

Platinum Member
I like the 12" on the right of the kick. I set up my Rogers a few weeks ago, similar to that. I was running the ride dead center above the kick. The 12" right of than, and the 16" floor. Makes for a sweet reach (none) between the 12/16....and the ride cymbal is placed in an ambidextrious location.​
Bruford has been playing with his kit set up like that, or similar, for about 15 years, I think. Notice his hi-hat has the center location. Equi-distant of left or right hand reach.​
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
Notice his hi-hat has the center location. Equi-distant of left or right hand reach.
If I remember correctly that's his ergonomics thing, allowing him to play normally open-handed and it makes playing the toms to his left much more natural. There was a thread about the comparatively slow response of remote hi hats, but I expect his was custom-made and worked as smooth as silk.
 

Coldhardsteel

Gold Member
coldhardsteel, could you elaborate on the comment you made about rolls, please. I don't think I understand what you mean. And awesome that you have a 0up5down!
Most rock fills, at least, are just going down the toms, and these rolls are single-stroke rolls, but they're sixteenth note rolls, so one beat is devoted to a single tom. With my set-up, I can't do that precisely, so I've been practicing my double, triple, and quadruple stroke rolls to see how close I can get to that.

Your suggested set-up would need some of that kind of practice, is what I'm saying.
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
If I remember correctly that's his ergonomics thing, allowing him to play normally open-handed and it makes playing the toms to his left much more natural.
Correcto-mundo you are. I'm suprised he's not using a center pedal (Off-Set, Slieshman, or Sonor). Those totaly follow into that way of thinking, symmetry/ergonomics.
The early cable hats did leave a lot to be desired. But 30 years development has got them working "pretty sweet".​
 

Pavlos

Senior Member
It only gets more tempting due to the fact that Mapex discontinued my finish very recently. So I'm pondering my setup now while I still have the chance to buy stuff.
Cool man. And you should probably get that tom that's for sale if the color is discontinued. It's always nice to have a little extra. I wanted to try a 20" BD and saw a few on Ebay in my color but didn't bite. Then Sonor discontinues my color and I haven't seen one in a long while. I missed the boat and am kickin myself. Have fun.

Correcto-mundo you are. I'm suprised he's not using a center pedal (Off-Set, Slieshman, or Sonor). Those totaly follow into that way of thinking, symmetry/ergonomics.
The early cable hats did leave a lot to be desired. But 30 years development has got them working "pretty sweet".​
I don't think Bill ever played a double setup did he? Not that I can remember anyway.
 

Pollyanna

Platinum Member
'm suprised he's not using a center pedal (Off-Set, Slieshman, or Sonor).
Harry, I'm not sure what you mean by centre pedal.

The term conjured up an absurd image to me ... sitting with legs almost closed, both to the right of the snare drum. Like drumming side saddle.

I'm sure that's not what you meant - lol
 
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