Musical Boundaries Being Redrawn

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
C Dave, it doesn't change what I said, though. Hip Hop is the number 1 genre because that's what the industry planners want.
When you said popular I was thinking pop the musical genre, not popular numbers wise. I think we are on the same page sort of. Listeners matter too.
 

ricky

Senior Member
my prediction is that coming out of the pandemic.. people will want to dance until they drop (sound familiar? eg the 1920s). I think DJ music structures mixed with House, jazz, country and rock attitude ..with deep foreboding basslines - will lead to something that people will line up around the block to see. Here’s one example that mixes the genres.. not an exciting drum pattern.. but at my last gig the DJ played this between sets and the crowd went wild.. 38M views on youtube.. not bad!
Maybe...

but that doesn't sound like anything very new to me....disco, 80s, drum machine, with muzaky abba like vocals?

Why do we all bother with acoustic drums, seems kind of crazy, don't it. Where's my horse and buggy and my dodo bird?
 

moxman

Silver Member
Removing my post as people will just misinterpret what im saying and dump all over the music example as it doesn’t fit their taste or whatever.. i dont really care tbh. Unfortunately i didnt remove it fast enough Lol.
 

ricky

Senior Member
Removing my post as people will just misinterpret what im saying and dump all over the music example as it doesn’t fit their taste or whatever.. i dont really care tbh. Unfortunately i didnt remove it fast enough Lol.

My apologies, didn't mean to dump all over it.

It is all just opinions.
 

moxman

Silver Member
It is all just opinions.
Np.. I think the point I was trying to make was around genre mixing.. and looking at view counts as one measure of popularity. But then again if you look at all the top views on Youtube, they are all over the map in terms of musical style... and a lot of those are teeny boppers that drive them up.. but interesting none the less
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Np.. I think the point I was trying to make was around genre mixing.. and looking at view counts as one measure of popularity. But then again if you look at all the top views on Youtube, they are all over the map in terms of musical style... and a lot of those are teeny boppers that drive them up.. but interesting none the less
That is interesting. Teenyboppers, but also paid content viewers. EG they used to pay people to go buy records, to get them onto the charts. 8billion views aren't all paid content viewers, but it doesn't take that many paid content viewers to get on the charts, from there people will watch them just to see what they are. Throw on a little big studio polish and Google marketing... wallah another hit for The Weekend. Just pointing out that the "Organic" youtube streams, is still manipulated at least a little, which is why things like Crazy Frog's Axle F or Pink Fong's Baby Shark are notable, probably glitches in Google's search algorithms.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
I would suggest considering that the ideas of 'musical genre' are a functional thinking error employed to allow ease of resource pooling/profit and are truly irrelevant to music itself and only hold musical value in how musicians are stunted by their use.

Humans would rather die than not know(literally) and not knowing how music 'is' for everyone else is no exception....hence 'genres' exist.

Makes sense as our evolutionary past favors those who work together AND utilize logic shortcuts to simplify complexity even at the cost of accuracy(our bodies also use functional inaccuracies to improve survivability - e.g. vision processing)

Genre irrelevance became apparent to me when working on 'Vital Signs' out of Rush's Moving Pictures.

Have a listen and find the places where a swing pattern fits...something I would not have noticed if my genre blinders were in effect.(Hint: Fact Is Its Fiction -fun lyrical content coincidence to this subject)

Humanity is not a paragon of accuracy but of adaptability....in many ways; the foundation of human creativity.
 
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SmoothOperator

Gold Member
I would suggest considering that the ideas of 'musical genre' are a functional thinking error employed to allow ease of resource pooling/profit and are truly irrelevant to music itself and only hold musical value in how musicians are stunted by their use.
I kind of disagree. Its like being at a blue grass jam and calling out a Latin tune. Its just not going to fly. That is a little extreme most people couldn't even interpret the lyrics, but OK lets say at country jam and calling out a blues tune. These things just don't work out well usually, even if they know the tune, the drummers like um what tempo, the bass is like what was that change again etc...

The line between rock and country, is pretty narrow though. It's got guitar and drums. As country is more and more the purveyor of live drum and guitar, I believe that line is going to be less and less meaningful.
 

C. Dave Run

Gold Member
The line between rock and country, is pretty narrow though. It's got guitar and drums. As country is more and more the purveyor of live drum and guitar, I believe that line is going to be less and less meaningful.
This might be part of the problem. Everyone has been trying to make music using the same 3 instruments for a long ass time. At some point, they start stepping all over each others toes. And in order to maintain some semblance of originality, boundaries get pushed.

What's the difference between the Beatles and Slayer? Twenty years and attitude.
 

Push pull stroke

Platinum Member
This might be part of the problem. Everyone has been trying to make music using the same 3 instruments for a long ass time. At some point, they start stepping all over each others toes. And in order to maintain some semblance of originality, boundaries get pushed.

What's the difference between the Beatles and Slayer? Twenty years and attitude.

The Beatles even used heavy distorted guitars a few times in their later years. So I’d say most of the difference is attitude, you know?
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
Current country music is unlistenable.

The rock and hip hop influences are sort of hilarious and border on embarrassing, and the autotune and overall production is just unbearable.

It hurts my head.

Just my opinion! :p

I totally agree with this...and don't even like country music
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
That thread about Beato and Rock is dead got me to thinking. You know maybe rock is just a sub variety of country. Like my parents, boomers and all they liked rock, but the only vaguely prog rock record they owned was Dark Side of the moon. They owned a whole lot of Dylan and Neil Young... See where I'm going with this? If you sit down and think about, Oh yeah even Nirvana did unplugged, and Greatful Dead did blue grass.

I mean is it a coincidence that white flight from the cities corresponded with the rise of Rock? EG as people moved out from the cities, they started to incorporate more rural elements into their music. Memorial day, my city has music festival, this year they did it at a park, rather than in the town center. I would have to say the acoustics of ponds, grass and trees is amazing.

I know people like to cite the negro influence, but even ragtime was a rural honkey tonk.
The Dead did "Bluegrass" because Garcia's roots were in folk, playing banjo and mandolin, before The Dead.

"Ragtime" came out way before any kinda honky tonk. It's more the opposite.

I think the proofs of your thesis are flawed.
 

Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX

Diamond Member
I see it as "genres" are like the "row" in the library, and then within that row ate hundreds of variations/ideas/and themes that have at least one or two common ties to the main genre.

are genres important? In a way yes. If I want a low key, mellow group to play my art gallery thing, I am NOT going to advertise "need a band to play art gallery opening". I am going to use genre descriptors to weed out the music that would not be appropriate for that event.

personally - being a bit OCD and anal - I like my collections to be organized by genre, and then specific subgenres b/c it helps me find what I need quicker

I DEFINITELY use genres to define my musically influenced lifestyle because it is the world I grew up in. I proudly dress as a metal head or punker in my daily life. I am Straight Edge, which was totally brought on to me via early 80's hardcore. I avoid cultural facets of other genres because I don't like them: yes, I don't like things. That is ok. It does not make me a jerk. I don't like the look or feel of cowboy boots and and hats. I don't like the look or feel of baggy jeans or track suits. I don't like the look or feel of fedoras or Hawaiian shirts. This is partially defined by the dislike of the musical genres those are generally a part of.

in the same way, I don't hate the people who like those other cultural facets. I would say that only about 40% of the people I know are metalhead/punkers. In fact, A LOT of the metalhead/punkers i know or dumbasses for one reason or another.

Genre definitely does not quantify/qualify legitimacy since it is all subjective anyway, but it can act as a quick "weedout" when necessary, and that is not bad
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
The Dead did "Bluegrass" because Garcia's roots were in folk, playing banjo and mandolin, before The Dead.

"Ragtime" came out way before any kinda honky tonk. It's more the opposite.

I think the proofs of your thesis are flawed.

I don't see how that is completely inconsistent with rock being within the country spectrum all along.
 
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