Music College?

Persistence? Sure. I understand that. I still think luck plays a big part.
How so? Any more than any other career?

Somebody lands a job that sets them up for their next job, and next after that. An opportunity comes your way through the recommendation of an old college buddy. You do an interview and for once everything just clicks... and maybe that job turns into the perfect thing for you.

Fortune. Misfortune. This is a part of everyone's paths. I'd just with music, we're inundated with show-biz romance, "That Thing You Do" type movies.... None of which applies at all to the lives of 95% of the people that make their living doing music.

Few if any go through anything like "being discovered" - and even when something like that happens, it is rarely if ever as career changing and defining as it is so often thought to be. Sure there can be moments like that kick things forward - but I don't see how it is all that different than most other fields, where the opportunity can arise, at the right time, and the person is ready to run with.

And like any career, maximizing those "opportunity knocks" moments is all about preparation, being ready for whatever is going to come, without really knowing when or what that is going to be.

I agree with your teacher that very few (compared to those that set out to do it) end up making a living in music. But the statement - "Those who do make their living playing music are talented, but most of all, lucky" - that I can't agree with at all.
 
I’ve known a LOT of people who were persistent as can be, and did the hustle and grind day and night, who never caught a break. I’ve also known a fair number of financially or artistically successful people, people known for their work, who honestly got advantages along the way that simply weren’t available to others. The secret to success is to be given money by your parents, or catch a rare wave. You want to be persistent *at being ready to catch a wild wave*. That’s what you practice for, apart from personal enjoyment.
Not at all disagreeing with that - though I think there's another angle to this that often doesn't come up.

But first - there's no getting around the leg up that parental support is. Not necessarily actual "given money by their parents" - but in a sense, "in kind" I guess it is. Getting started means at least minimal gear, getting good usually means education - lessons, coaching, school.... And the younger one gets serious the better - this usually means as a teenager, playing in school, playing in bands - spending gas money and chewing up drumsticks for a billion playing activities that generate next to no revenue. And when done pretty fully leaves little time for sports... nor anything like part-time "teen" type jobs. (I knew some serious young players that had to work part time jobs, while going to school to say, have a car - and they did, but it slowed them down.... made it harder.) So certainly, taking advantage of every advantage is a factor.

But the main thing I wanted to touch on regarding persistence is the inability of many players to assess the attainability of their specific goals. Of course setting goals is a good thing. But when shooting for a very long odds goal (and most goals in music are exactly that), one needs to really assess how long the odds are. IMO one way to improve the odds is to pursue many parallel, related goals concurrently.

I've seen so many folks shoot themselves in the foot by deciding their goal was to succeed in this kind of band, taking a specific path. They start with the sort of band they want to have success with - and that's it. They just work at that - they persevere with that, till it peters out, then do it again with another similar band. At first glance, that might seem like a focused plan. But in reality - it greatly reduces a young player's opportunities to gain experience and just get better.

Whereas getting more irons in the fire invariable means playing more - with more people, more settings, but most importantly.... more. But of course, the mindset required approach it that has to allow for any of those alternate paths to become dominant for awhile. Frankly I don't know that I've met anyone that survived for long pursuing this as a career with the idea that "I'm only going to play the music I want to play in the kind of setting I want to play it in... period" - with anything outside the being a distraction. And that IMO can be pursued until one is blue in the face with very very very long odds of working out.

So many players I've worked with over the years tended to have goals with a wider focus.... "I want to be able to play drums with good players" - "I would love to have a career playing drums". A broader focus hopefully allow for a wider range of opportunities to be caught - but in the meantime, it boils down to first playing with anyone that will play with you, and then pursuing and accepting in and every gig that pays money...

Will persevering in that way insure being able to make a living playing?.... Oh, no. There's still the issue of way too many aspiring professionals and way way too few jobs - a situation that has done nothing but dramatically digress in the past 20 years or so. So competition is simple huge. So being better is more important than ever - and better meaning the whole package - playing ability, musical sensibilities, people skills, versatility, etc. etc. All this path does is focus that perseverance down a path that has a greater chance of success - than the more "win the Loto" approach.
 
Persistence? Sure. I understand that. I still think luck plays a big part.
I’ve known a LOT of people who were persistent as can be, and did the hustle and grind day and night, who never caught a break. I’ve also known a fair number of financially or artistically successful people, people known for their work, who honestly got advantages along the way that simply weren’t available to others. The secret to success is to be given money by your parents, or catch a rare wave. You want to be persistent *at being ready to catch a wild wave*. That’s what you practice for, apart from personal enjoyment.

I don't think I'm talking about the same business you guys are. I'm not talking about "catching a break" and becoming rich and famous, I'm talking about doing music as a job.
 
But first - there's no getting around the leg up that parental support is. Not necessarily actual "given money by their parents" - but in a sense, "in kind" I guess it is. Getting started means at least minimal gear, getting good usually means education - lessons, coaching, school.... And the younger one gets serious the better - this usually means as a teenager, playing in school, playing in bands - spending gas money and chewing up drumsticks for a billion playing activities that generate next to no revenue. And when done pretty fully leaves little time for sports... nor anything like part-time "teen" type jobs. (I knew some serious young players that had to work part time jobs, while going to school to say, have a car - and they did, but it slowed them down.... made it harder.) So certainly, taking advantage of every advantage is a factor.

That, that's a big deal. My brother and I both had that-- not what I would call lavish financial support, no trust fund to fall back on if we screwed up our lives completely-- but we were left alone to do a ton of music from ~ age 12-21.

But the main thing I wanted to touch on regarding persistence is the inability of many players to assess the attainability of their specific goals. Of course setting goals is a good thing. But when shooting for a very long odds goal (and most goals in music are exactly that), one needs to really assess how long the odds are. IMO one way to improve the odds is to pursue many parallel, related goals concurrently.

Mainly I meant just not giving up and getting out of music. You hang around long enough and try enough stuff, things will work out on some level. Individual projects, plans, ideas, goals fail all the time, you keep going and try something different, do the next thing.
 
That, that's a big deal. My brother and I both had that-- not what I would call lavish financial support, no trust fund to fall back on if we screwed up our lives completely-- but we were left alone to do a ton of music from ~ age 12-21.
Similar story for me - modest middle class family at best financially. Had lessons early on. Lived about 45 minutes outside of LA/Hollywood and Mom later always was kicking herself for not pushing to find out who I should've been studying with in LA (seeing how close we were), but overall just hugely supportive of the pursuit to do anything I could get involved with musically.

Parents got me a crappy car - because again no jobbing other than local gigging (which barely kept me in sticks). Started out going to a then basically free state college - and as my career starting happening, again it was Mom that convinced me more than once to reconsider moving out (even to the point of the somewhat embarrassing discussion of "If moving out is about having your privacy, having a place to bring girls - you are more than free to bring home anyone you want, just close your door and don't make too much noise") Her point being that though I was making some money by that point, living at home was allowing me to keep my focus on doing the gigs that were best for me long term - with the best players, playing great music, that were better showcases or were better networking. As opposed to focusing on having to make money.

End result - I stayed at home until I was 25 - and it worked out to be a huge investment in my career that I believe was totally worth it.

Again all of this is long odds - anything that makes those odds better is a huge help.
Mainly I meant just not giving up and getting out of music. You hang around long enough and try enough stuff, things will work out on some level. Individual projects, plans, ideas, goals fail all the time, you keep going and try something different, do the next thing.

Oh absolutely. I remember, probably back when I was in my late 30's or so, a number of conversations with fellow players, starting with someone pondering a question, "Of all the folks we grew up with and have known over the years, how is it that we're the ones doing these gigs?" Basically "How did we get here versus so many of those other folks?" With the answer always ending up being "Because we didn't give" - "Because every time it has been obvious that we should pack it in... do something else.... with less stress and certainly more money... we didn't."
 
I don't have too much to add, there has been such a change that I'm feeling quite out of touch with how things are for school age drummers, who can be experts in social media, marketing etc. All I wanted to add is sometimes it's a good idea to go to music college a little later. I know a few people who didn't meet the standards straight out of school then spent a year or two playing professionally, then went to college and they had a much better time at college. Being one of the better players when you go in means getting to play in the top bands (if you're joining big bands etc) and being first call for a lot of gigs. I'd get as much together as possible before you go to college. In my case I just couldn't afford college so went later when I was able to get a scholarship, it helps not coming out in debt.
 
Brilliant posts by DCrigger and ToddBishop. I kind of get tired answering these posts about 'luck' I must admit.
In the end you have an opportunity to do something and you are able to capitalise on that opportunity or you are not.
From about 17 years old I was invited to do some great gigs, but had I not been able to deliver I would not have progressed. And yes, there were times I worked with a famous record producer, they didn't like what I brought to the date and I never worked with them again.
There were several years where I lived on people's couches, ate 75c pizza slices everyday, walked everywhere because I couldn't afford public transport etc...
To answer the original question....
the music industry has never been tougher than it is now. there is much more competition for jobs, but also less money when you get the gig.
I think you pursue a career in music because you have to, it is in your heart, in your blood. If you start thinking about how hard it might be, it might not be the career choice for you.
 
I know a few people who didn't meet the standards straight out of school then spent a year or two playing professionally, then went to college and they had a much better time at college.
The best two things about college is you get to hang out with a lot of like minded people, you get to hang out with people better than you, you get to play every day. Outside of college, it's difficult to play every day and it can be very lonely.
The main things I got out of college were the experience of playing lots of different genres at quite a high level (for 18 to 20 year olds). And the contacts. When I was starting out it helped that a few friends who had a gig in London might recommend me if a drum job opened up.
The paper qualifications are mostly good for teaching. Which is 100% fine if that's what you want to do.
Finally, college is a short cut to knowledge. On the street it takes years to skill yourself up. In college you are challenged to learn something new every single day.
 
First, I’m a 57 yo software engineer with a side hustle. But I was young once too, playing early in life, wondering where it would take me. The options drastically reduce as youth gets taken away.

As someone else said here, you’re not going to make it selling albums. So going the teaching route and/or traveling and performing on a stage is a the other possibility. In order to get to that career trajectory, music school is probably on order, mostly for the resume and the connections. Even if you did all that, you’d not be making a ton of money, and you’d likely be single from all the traveling.

Can you sight read now? Are you playing in any orchestra or marching bands at your high school? You’ll need that if you want to get into a music degree program at a reputable university. And most degree programs require some form of mallet audition. So that’s at least basic music theory and sight reading there.

And having supportive parents is helpful although not a requirement. Good luck!
 
Yeah our head of jazz did say that you want to be the least good player in the college, as then you get the most out of it. Totally agree if you can afford it. My perspective is you want to hit the ground running before you set foot in music college so that you can play with the best people and support yourself with income from music throughout it. On our course in London people were regularly missing classes because they had to take work to stay in college, which affected progress and meant that in ensemble classes there'd be key instruments missing. When I lived in Boston I was playing with people spending over $50k a year to study at Berklee and I never understood how they managed it. It's just something to bear in mind, knowing where you are in that financial food chain before starting and planning accordingly so you get the most out of music college. I was pretty low on that food chain, but never got in debt which helped later.
 
Should add, I left school early and did a free 2-year full time music course at a local college instead of final school years. My comments about planning for music college are more about conservatoire level courses - with big fees, living expenses, and where you'd ideally want to have time to be fully dedicated to get the most out of it. I did that later and that was better in my particular case. In an ideal world, if money wasn't an issue - going straight from school to Berklee would have been my dream come true.
 
I think (if one exists) a smaller college with a good track record in graduates would be better.
Berklee is expensive!!!! and I wonder how many of the hundreds of graduates each year go on to have a career in music.
 
Not to make light of anything but when I think back on my BIG DREAM and have listened to Gadd..Porcaro..Whitten..Marotta..J.R. ...Newmark..Gordon..Blaine...Vinnie..Keltner..maybe it's GOOD that I held a day job and had some week-end fun. I'm still serious about what I do but I may just have saved myself from to much heartache/heartbreak. I can be woe is me at times but realistic to. Maybe my hidden talent was realizing what I'm NOT being actually happier in the end. I'm glad all I mentioned had musical education because they've enriched my life!. 🎶 😃.
 
I have huge doubts about college after my college experience and sending three kids through college (debt free!). Plus, working as an "approved vendor" to the state university system I've seen many music majors spending $80,000+ for a bachelor's music degree only to work at a music store giving lessons and working the sales floor. The saddest example was a fellow who attained a Phd. in jazz drumming* but could not find a job teaching in any college in the northern hemisphere; he gave drum lessons for $20/hour. Getting a college education will not guarantee a career.

Ten years after my college experience I was hired as an assistant for a photo studio in Detroit, working in the auto industry. The rule my boss told me: "If I have to tell you something twice, you're gone". I was paid half what freelance assistants made (but had a full-time job) and did everything and anything needed in the studio including cleaning toilets, painting rooms, getting snacks/lunch, fixing the lighting and grip equipment, staying late to finish a job and run the film to the lab, packing 20 cases of equipment for a 3-month job 2000 miles away, etc. It was like drinking from a fire hose. I had no personal life and loved it 'cuz I was doing what I love to do.

For an example of a professional drummer, look at how Kenny Aronoff navigated his career. It's quite a story!

*A professor of musicology, who was on the college of music's faculty board, had continually voted NO for any Phd. in jazz for exactly this reason. He was overridden 'cuz MONEY.
 
Ten years after my college experience I was hired as an assistant for a photo studio in Detroit,
But what was your college experience, not músic, or?

Sorry, its not clear to me after reading what you wrote.

Thanks!
 
Music college is where you meet the people that you're going to work with after graduation.

I would say college isn’t the only way. I know kids who went straight to trade school out of high school and made more money as a HVAC or plumber, allowing them the time to pursue music. More kids need to make the colleges responsible for them making a living after they’ve given their money to a university. My logic is simple, if I paid for a Big Mac, I better have that Big Mac.

Excellent points. Trades make bank! Six figures as a welder or plumber is there.
Colleges need to work for the students, instead of students being the farm that colleges work over and live off of.

Don't ever eat at McDonald's. I don't. The restrooms are clean for expelling waste, but then go to another place for food.
 
Music college is where you meet the people that you're going to work with after graduation.



Excellent points. Trades make bank! Six figures as a welder or plumber is there.
Colleges need to work for the students, instead of students being the farm that colleges work over and live off of.

Don't ever eat at McDonald's. I don't. The restrooms are clean for expelling waste, but then go to another place for food.
McDonalds is just an example - if I pay for something specific, that’s what I better be getting. Colleges sell kids “music performance degrees” but never guarantee that’s what they’ll be doing when they leave with their framed degree that states what they paid for.
 
McDonalds is just an example - if I pay for something specific, that’s what I better be getting. Colleges sell kids “music performance degrees” but never guarantee that’s what they’ll be doing when they leave with their framed degree that states what they paid for.

I get it. It's just the activism I practice.
I agree with your points.

My dad disputed why I went to college. He said it was to better myself. No, Dad. I want a specific job. Return on investment. Now can I borrow the money? Thank you.
 
Back
Top