Mounted vs virgin kick

8Mile

Platinum Member
I ordered Ludwig Classic Maples 10 years ago and I got the bass drums undrilled (22" and 18"). After living with that setup for a long time, I've decided it's not for me.

I don't like having the tom positioning affected by the placement of the cymbal stands. If you're using some of the newer, ultra-lightweight hardware, it limits you even further. I switched to Yamaha Crosstown hardware last year and I'm not going to suspend toms from such lightweight stands, so I've started placing the rack tom on a snare stand. I find that to be a pain also.

Not sure if other Ludwig owners have noticed this, but I'm also not a fan of the suspension mounts on my toms; they don't fit perfectly, so they exert pressure against the two outside tension rods. This makes it impossible to finger tighten the rods when changing heads and I wonder if they're actually compromising the sound of the toms.

If I had to do it over again, I would probably have had the bass drums built with mounts attached and found a different way to mount my toms than the Ludwig suspension mounts.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I ordered Ludwig Classic Maples 10 years ago and I got the bass drums undrilled (22" and 18"). After living with that setup for a long time, I've decided it's not for me.

I don't like having the tom positioning affected by the placement of the cymbal stands. If you're using some of the newer, ultra-lightweight hardware, it limits you even further. I switched to Yamaha Crosstown hardware last year and I'm not going to suspend toms from such lightweight stands, so I've started placing the rack tom on a snare stand. I find that to be a pain also.

Not sure if other Ludwig owners have noticed this, but I'm also not a fan of the suspension mounts on my toms; they don't fit perfectly, so they exert pressure against the two outside tension rods. This makes it impossible to finger tighten the rods when changing heads and I wonder if they're actually compromising the sound of the toms.

If I had to do it over again, I would probably have had the bass drums built with mounts attached and found a different way to mount my toms than the Ludwig suspension mounts.
Why don’t you just drill the bass drums for mounts and drill the toms for the classic bracket?
 

8Mile

Platinum Member
Why don’t you just drill the bass drums for mounts and drill the toms for the classic bracket?
I am considering it. What really cemented it for me was getting my USA Customs last year with the mount on the bass drum and the tom bracket attached directly to the shell. Slight trepidation about losing a little value in case I ever decide to sell, but that's really unlikely to happen I guess.
 

MrInsanePolack

Platinum Member
Mounted toms sometimes make the kick feel too close for me. I really couldn't care less if the kick has a mount on it or not, as long as I can put it where I want it. Ideally, a rack is the best for me because no one piece of gear is tied to the other requiring a sacrifice somewhere. Right now I'm running 0 up, so it really doesn't matter.
 

Bo Eder

Platinum Member
I am considering it. What really cemented it for me was getting my USA Customs last year with the mount on the bass drum and the tom bracket attached directly to the shell. Slight trepidation about losing a little value in case I ever decide to sell, but that's really unlikely to happen I guess.
Sometimes the “suspension marketing” makes us second-guess, eh? I think you’ll be fine.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
Not sure if other Ludwig owners have noticed this, but I'm also not a fan of the suspension mounts on my toms; they don't fit perfectly, so they exert pressure against the two outside tension rods. This makes it impossible to finger tighten the rods when changing heads and I wonder if they're actually compromising the sound of the toms.

If I had to do it over again, I would probably have had the bass drums built with mounts attached and found a different way to mount my toms than the Ludwig suspension mounts.
The "rings" of the suspension mounts are meant to be a bit flexible, in the, ummm... "circular" way, i.e. slightly bigger or smaller circle. Try bending them a bit (you'll likely have to remove the top head & do this with the drum not mounted), to the point that the outer two holes aren't pushing/pulling against the tension rods. I've had two kits with these (admittedly not Ludwigs) that I had to adjust a little. One was more difficult due to the "ring" being flanged over at the top. The other was easier- no flange, just like the Ludwig Vibra-bands.

This is similar to a car I had, where the driver's side door didn't quite seal somewhere up beside my head- I could hear wind noise. An uncle has a body shop. I thought he was gonna have to do some major adjustment work- possibly remove the door and adjust at the hinges or something, or the door was just defective and I was gonna have to buy another, have it painted, etc. He eyeballed the door... ummm, gap, from the outside while it was closed for about 5 seconds. He opened it, put his hip against the inside of it for leverage, literally bent the upper corner of the door in a little with his hands twice, maybe three times, closing the door and giving it a quick eyeball test after each time- totally sealed, no more wind noise. He fixed the thing in 30 seconds by bending the metal a little.
 
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Bonzo_CR

Silver Member
I bought a kit with an undrilled kick about 20 years and it was really nice. Finally sold it last year (not because of the kick, but because it had power toms and I wanted to go back to normal depth toms). Honestly I thought it was always a bit of a faff trying to get the toms in the right place suspended on cymbal stands. Every other kit I've bought before and since had toms mounted on the kick.

On balance I prefer toms mounted on the kick - no real difference in sound IMO and quicker/easier tom positioning.
 

AzHeat

Platinum Member
No it doesn’t. You still cannot get both in optimal position ( at least for me )
Never worked for me either, except for a splash. Just couldn’t get the cymbal back far enough off the tom, unless the boom ran backwards.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
No it doesn’t. You still cannot get both in optimal position ( at least for me )
Did you want them fairly far apart...? Off a cymbal stand, you can put the tom anywhere you want, even in the exact position that mounting it on the bass drum would put it. (I actually find it odd that most people do that, even when the BD has a mounting bracket; makes me think "why didn't you just use the BD mount? lol) If the stand is a straight stand, then the horizontal position of the cymbal is limited to that spot that got you the tom where you wanted it. With a boom stand instead, you can then put the cymbal anywhere you want within a decent radius of the stand itself, and if you can't without getting the tom out of position, then you mounted it to the wrong stand, or you don't have any stands within a reasonable range of where you want the tom. Maybe one of those situations is why it didn't work for you...?
 

Tamaefx

Silver Member
With undrilled BD, you can technically put the tom anywhere, but who cares? Most people, and most catalog pictures will want the toms in front of the drummer, and above the bass drum. When I don't use the bass mount I really prefer an offset double tom stand.

Otherwise, each time I fought with toms hanging from the cymbal stands, either side of the bass drum, I had problem with the balance. Since you can't have a leg of the stand aligned with the tom (because this is where de bass drum is), I always had an unbalanced feel.
IMO, clamped toms to the cymbal stands is the best way to ruin cymbal stands and to risk to scratch the top of the bass drum because of unbalanced position.
I really prefer dedicated double tom stands or tom mount on the BD.
 

vindrums

Senior Member
Every set up option has its benefits and its weakness I prefer to have my toms mounted on the bass drum. Perhaps it's just what I'm used to, but every time I use a backline kit that has a virgin kick, I find that I spend an obscene amount of time trying to find a sweet spot for both the drum and the cymbals.
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
With undrilled BD, you can technically put the tom anywhere, but who cares? Most people, and most catalog pictures will want the toms in front of the drummer, and above the bass drum... Otherwise, each time I fought with toms hanging from the cymbal stands, either side of the bass drum, I had problem with the balance. Since you can't have a leg of the stand aligned with the tom (because this is where de bass drum is), I always had an unbalanced feel.
IMO, clamped toms to the cymbal stands is the best way to ruin cymbal stands and to risk to scratch the top of the bass drum because of unbalanced position.
If that's where you want the toms, and you want everything mounted independently from each other, then the BD mount is the way to go.

That said, both kits in the lesson room where I teach have the toms over the bass drum, right where they'd be if there was a BD mount, but they're hung on double-braced cymbal stands, right over the legs that are pointed diagonally toward the bass drum with each stand foot slightly under the drum. (From the seated position, each stand has two legs toward the player like the bottom of an X, with the third leg facing straight away.) The cymbals are on booms. The only balance issue was the potential of not setting them right in the first place. Everything is solid and the toms & stands are no more wobbly than if the toms were on the BD. The stands aren't any more damaged than if they only had a splash or cowbell mounted on them. Students from 7 to 40 reach everything comfortably.

On my personal rehearsal kit, I use a double mount on a cymbal stand (same as a tom stand with a cymbal clamped, just the other way around) because I like my 2 rack toms offset from the BD a bit. The stand has one leg facing straight toward me, and the 2 racks hang right over it. It's a little wobbly because the weight of the toms is two attachment points from the stand (toms on individual holders, each in its own clamp on a 3-sided clamp, the 3rd clamp attached to the stand), but it always stays set up in the rehearsal room, so it doesn't bother me much. If I had to use this as my gig kit, I'd have it on a tom stand and fly the cymbal from it because I think that would be more stable and have a faster/easier setup. My actual gig kit is on a rack; everything is where I want it, exactly the same with every setup, and each item is adjustable independently from everything else (except I still have the rack toms on a double mount to save a clamp). Most of the reason I use a rack rather than stands for gigs is so I don't have to micromanage each stand to get everything just right. But, I digress.
 
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danondrums

Well-known member
Weird to read about everyone attaching toms to their cymbal stands.
I attach cymbals to my tom stands. :)
I always have improved ergonomics when the toms are independent of the bass drum.
 

Tamaefx

Silver Member
Weird to read about everyone attaching toms to their cymbal stands.
I attach cymbals to my tom stands. :)
I always have improved ergonomics when the toms are independent of the bass drum.
You’re perfectly right on that point. It’s mostly due to habits. The kits come with clamps, then you clamp to the cymbal stands.
I never did that to my kits, I favoured offset double tom stands.
 
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