Moral dilemma

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
Man this an "awesome" thread. Look how "honest" so many drummers are-and we get a bad rap for being unruly or whatever. That shows a lot of professional integrity-something I see dying in our world sadly. Drummers rock-even when jazz-ing, fusion-ing, country-ing, hip-hop-ing, metal-ing, etc. We need to get guitar players to join our forum so maybe it will rub off-Hahaha-just kidding guitarist.
 

Vintage Old School

Gold Member
At the end of the day what is your reputation worth? Choose any field of work and the individuals who are booked out a year and beyond are the ones with impeccable reputations. We can't always control the amount of money we make, but we can choose our character. Your reputation is your most valuable asset.
 

TMe

Senior Member
Probably the person with full time job and a family.
I always thought that as I got older, the amateur musician crowd would get more mature because of age, and less flaky because of attrition. As it turns out, it's worse. It's seems most of the grownups have packed it in, so most of the people remaining are either pro's I'm not good enough to play with, or perpetual adolescents I wouldn't want to spend time around.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Larry, I get the sense you're not yet completely settled on what you want. You're trying to be honest whilst still not blowing out opportunities, I get that, but you need clarity in the way you present your availability. Right now, you're positioning yourself as somewhat transient, & that's not attractive.

You'll almost always end up in a compromise position compared to your dream ideal. If you can settle with a situation that's mostly satisfying for you, then stick to that, & display reliability within the confines of your availability, you'll be good to go.
 

Channing

Member
I always thought that as I got older, the amateur musician crowd would get more mature because of age, and less flaky because of attrition. As it turns out, it's worse. It's seems most of the grownups have packed it in, so most of the people remaining are either pro's I'm not good enough to play with, or perpetual adolescents I wouldn't want to spend time around.
Are you implying that I'm a "perpetual adolescent" because I said that people with full time jobs and families have less time to devote to music? Or are you trying to imply that "grownups" have children and anyone who doesn't is a perpetual adolescent? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
I thought it was common knowledge that kids take up a lot of your time and everything else becomes a lower priority.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Larry, I get the sense you're not yet completely settled on what you want. You're trying to be honest whilst still not blowing out opportunities, I get that, but you need clarity in the way you present your availability. Right now, you're positioning yourself as somewhat transient, & that's not attractive.

You'll almost always end up in a compromise position compared to your dream ideal. If you can settle with a situation that's mostly satisfying for you, then stick to that, & display reliability within the confines of your availability, you'll be good to go.
I thought I was settled. I want to be a freelance drummer who gets hired on a first come first serve basis, and said so. This is a new tact for me and I thought that maybe I could have worded/conveyed it better. I would like to be this band's drummer, but I'm not marrying them, I'm not marrying anyone. I am just trying to convey my needs honestly, in a way that doesn't hamstring myself by making them want to look elsewhere.

Being honest, yes it's the best way. But how a person words things has greatly varying effects.. I think of this quote: "Tact: the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they actually look forward to the trip".

Not that I want to tell them to go to hell, but I would like to word things in such a way that they would look forward to me playing with them, even if I can't be their one and only.

It's a good problem for sure. What I really want is this rock band, the blues band I play with, and I'll play in my former band (I like the rooms and the crowds we play to) but he needs to have a backup for me when I am playing with the other guys. It feels weird being in the power position. I like it.
 

danondrums

Well-known member
The only variable that matters is how many rehearsals and gigs/month and can you make them. Nothing else is really of interest.
When a group cares more about figuring out my own situation so that they can judge my commitment level instead of just asking and trusting what I can commit to, the flags go off for me.
 

Otto

Platinum Member
Might I suggest an option?

Form your own project, get a long list of players that you trust when they commit...then take the extra cut that the producers do.

Set up licensed recordings to cover each instrument individually in the rare case you cant find someone to perform that instrument for that gig.

If you are going to do art as business, own that business is what you are doing and do it with the ethics of a business...profits are short term, favor the 'leader' and the ethical obligation is to the 'shareholder(s)'...which is you alone.

I do NOT believe this a good approach to generate good art...but that has nothing to do with Art Business.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
I've been doing this for a while. I have several bands, and I'm not totally invested in any one. Honestly, it's impossible to avoid little nagging feelings of jealousy that you aren't exclusive to each other, but this passes literally overnight usually and once everyone sees that you're all still working at the same thing it's typically all good.

My rule, which I am very up-front about is that seniority decides gig dates that are in conflict. So if two bands want me in the same night with about the same notice, the band I've been with the longest wins the dispute. This has the added benefit of getting my bands to book things further out so they don't get in that situation. If it's already in my date book then I'll reject further suggestions of the same night.
 

TMe

Senior Member
Are you implying that I'm a "perpetual adolescent" because I said that people with full time jobs and families have less time to devote to music? Or are you trying to imply that "grownups" have children and anyone who doesn't is a perpetual adolescent?
Nope. I'm saying there's a shortage of mature people who keep playing in amateur bands as they get older. It seems most give up on music to pursue other things. A lot of the guys who are left are "perpetual adolescents". You know the type. Over sized gear, everything turned to 11, Rock star posturing, showing up late, showing up stoned, talking seriously about how they're still going to make it big, inappropriate behaviour toward women, can't keep a job...

Somehow I thought that as we got older, amateur musicians would become more mature. It never occurred to me that natural selection would work in reverse, leaving behind mostly the flakes.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Nope. I'm saying there's a shortage of mature people who keep playing in amateur bands as they get older. It seems most give up on music to pursue other things. A lot of the guys who are left are "perpetual adolescents". You know the type. Over sized gear, everything turned to 11, Rock star posturing, showing up late, showing up stoned, talking seriously about how they're still going to make it big, inappropriate behaviour toward women, can't keep a job...

Somehow I thought that as we got older, amateur musicians would become more mature. It never occurred to me that natural selection would work in reverse, leaving behind mostly the flakes.
The rules clearly state you're not supposed to attack me personally. Not cool.
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
Larry, if you want to be a freelance drummer who wants to be on a first-call, first-serve basis, then you go do that! That's what I've been doing for about a year, and it feels really good. 🙂

If you approach a band for an audition, and they are wanting a full-fledged member with the implications that EVERY time they book that you will be available, then maybe they just aren't the band for you. They may be for someone out there, but if they aren't for you, then that's ok. You did the right thing being honest. For me, I never want to ever be an official band member again. If that's what a band is looking for, then I'm out because those situations can get really weird whenever you start looking at things like jealousy and money.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Larry, if you want to be a freelance drummer who wants to be on a first-call, first-serve basis, then you go do that! That's what I've been doing for about a year, and it feels really good. 🙂

If you approach a band for an audition, and they are wanting a full-fledged member with the implications that EVERY time they book that you will be available, then maybe they just aren't the band for you. They may be for someone out there, but if they aren't for you, then that's ok. You did the right thing being honest. For me, I never want to ever be an official band member again. If that's what a band is looking for, then I'm out because those situations can get really weird whenever you start looking at things like jealousy and money.
OK Martin I will go ahead and do just that.

Historically, I'm a team player, and it feels different saying no I'm a free agent now.
Nothing is perfect. I cannot fault them for wanting a band member. I'd like to play in this band, the guys passed the test. I hope they can be OK with me playing in other projects. It's very common in my area to do that.

It all could depend on an audition tonight. They have another person they are trying out. I am very curious to see what the result is.
 

PorkPieGuy

Platinum Member
OK Martin I will go ahead and do just that.

Historically, I'm a team player, and it feels different saying no I'm a free agent now.
Nothing is perfect. I cannot fault them for wanting a band member. I'd like to play in this band, the guys passed the test. I hope they can be OK with me playing in other projects. It's very common in my area to do that.

It all could depend on an audition tonight. They have another person they are trying out. I am very curious to see what the result is.
Let us know how it goes!

I know for me, if I go audition for a band, and they aren't pleased with what I do, then I don't need to be with them. Also, if their drummer can't make it and they need a fill-in, they may call me in anyways at some point. I'm confident in what I do, and if they are looking for something different, then that's ok! I believe you should feel the same way.
 
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