MOELLER METHOD

NouveauCliche

Senior Member
Re: Moeller History and Videos Website

Wow man, thanks for that awesome link!

It's neat to see some history and real respect for the history of drums and drumming. Especially parade type drumming, since previous to the jazz and swing era that was pretty much the only kind of drumming we had in America.

As for the grip itself...it looks like a fantastic way to exert some power without having to exert so much force like you'd have to in say a french type of grip. My only concern is using it with modern snare/tom angles...but those could easily be change to more accomidate the grip itself. Definetly something worth trying out!
 

bean6022000

Junior Member
Re: Moeller technique

Check put the thread I just posted entitled "Moeller History and Videos Website." Hope this helps.
 

NUTHA JASON

Senior Administrator
Re: Moeller Technique

i found this picture of a gig from about a year ago. look how loose i'm holding my drumstick. its being held by my fingers and controlled by my thumb and index ...and that hardly at all. this is how i hold my hihat stick for most of the night and so i am able to play with speed and power without fatigue. as i understand it, this is integral to the moeller approach.
j
ps this shot was taken with a flash and suprised me mid stroke (hence the rabbit in the headlights stare) but ut did show me usefully how loose i was holding the stick.
 

Tim Waterson

WFD ACEDRUMMER
Re: Moeller History and Videos Website

bean6022000 said:
I'm trying to more fully learn Moeller. I have the Chapin Video and have looked at a bunch of Internet clips. I stumbled across the Internet site on Moeller attached below. In my opinion this site gives the most comrehensive history and explanation of the Moeller technique....period (yes even better than the Chapin video). The author (TW Hanson) did a great job. I'm curious what you guys think; particularly the right hand finger bounce technique. I've never seen this technique before. So far, my limited experimintation with the technique indicates some promise. I want to use only one technique (i.e. Moeller vice Freehand)and Moeller seems to be the ticket. I want to focus on one technique 'cause I already have enough bad habits to "unlearn." Thanks for your input.

http://www.digbydoodle.com/Moeller/vintage.htm
Great Link I think this should help a lot of confusion on Moeller.
I have heard great things about Tommy.
Seeing as there is NO drumset videos from Tommy Id let you kinow I have another clip on using Moeller accents around the drums in my tip or trick of the month for November.
http://forum.timwaterson.com/viewtopic.php?t=32
Hope this helps and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com
 

JT1

Silver Member
Re: Moeller Technique

OMG Tim Waterson was here. Wow he is a legend like i wish i could do the heel-toe technique al together never mind as good as he can!
 

incubotic

Senior Member
Re: Moeller Technique

thanks for that link tim..that helped a lot for moving around the kit. awesome vid.
 

jeanke

Junior Member
Re: Moeller Technique

i never knew i used the moeller techn.
i just learnded it from my drumteacher.
it's pretty easy if you know how
 

bean6022000

Junior Member
Re: Moeller History and Videos Website

Tim Waterson said:
Great Link I think this should help a lot of confusion on Moeller.
I have heard great things about Tommy.
Seeing as there is NO drumset videos from Tommy Id let you kinow I have another clip on using Moeller accents around the drums in my tip or trick of the month for November.
http://forum.timwaterson.com/viewtopic.php?t=32
Hope this helps and God Bless
Tim
www.timwaterson.com
Great Video Tim,,,Thanks! Did you get a chance to see that RH index finger bounce video hotlinked in the "Ancients" article? Have you ever used it? What do you think?

Also, in trying to use Moeller matched grip (Chapin style) on the drumset, I'm having a bit of trouble with the hi-hat getting in the way. Whereas I'm used to using the German grip at about a 45 degree angle, the Moeller is closer to 90 degrees. Consequently, the butt of my stick tends to hit the high-hat when I move from the snare to the left upper rack tom. I know this sounds like it should be an easy fix (just move the friggin' high-hat further out), but it is not quite that simple. My high-hat is already pretty far out, and when I move it out further, it is too far out for comfortable right-hand sticking. The open hand (leading left hand) style is not an option at this point as my left hand is not that developed (yet). So.....did you have this problem when you first started the Moeller matched grip/technique, and what did you do about it?

Man your feet are on fire! What technique do you use on the pedals? Any particular exercises you used to develop them? Do you have a video of your technique?

Thanks for your Moeller drumst video and your advice.
 

k3ng

Silver Member
How to know if you're getting the Moeller

So I've been working on the Moeller alot, especially in traditional grip, and got sort of stumped at my speed. Sure it felt muce more relaxed and looser but didn't quite get speed into it.

But then I took a look at the Jojo Mayer video on the site about the Moeller (which I think is the best Moeller clip there is on this site), and saw him turn the Moeller over as he pumped the motion. I tried this and I think it's working for me, but I'm not too sure about it.

So I was thinking, since I don't really have a drum teacher at the moment, is there a specific way to know if you're doing the Moeller right?
 
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Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan

Guest
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

k3ng said:
So I've been working on the Moeller alot, especially in traditional grip, and got sort of stumped at my speed. Sure it felt muce more relaxed and looser but didn't quite get speed into it.

But then I took a look at the Jojo Mayer video on the site about the Moeller (which I think is the best Moeller clip there is on this site), and saw him turn the Moeller over as he pumped the motion. I tried this and I think it's working for me, but I'm not too sure about it.

So I was thinking, since I don't really have a drum teacher at the moment, is there a specific way to know if you're doing the Moeller right?
Yes, there is:
1) If you can pump 8th note triplets with one hand at tempo 120 (so, three beats per metronome beat) and feel like you could go on all day, then you are there. And then here are some further things to check if you want it to be really beneficial to you in the long run:
2) Keep your elbows in, make sure they don't fly out at the accent.
3) Truly hit only once, and let the stick bounce twice (or three times for 16ths). You will of course control the bounce, but the enery should come from the first hit.
4) For the right hand: is the wrist straight? It is worth the effort to really work on keeping it straight, as it makes the energy flow easier, and a straight wrist is one thing that can't hurt you, whereas a bent wrist surely will in the long run.
5) Also for the RH: try staying in German position first. It will stretch your outer forearm and give you better range of motion.
6) For the left hand, since I am a matched grip player I cannot give too much advice, but I would check my technique against Chapin's on Dom's videos and also JoJo Mayer's vids.
7) Keep thinking "play DOWN". It is easy, since the Moeller is a whipping motion, to subconsciously think forward, but keep playing down, it will make the sound much better.
Hope this helps. DPS
 

Drum4fun

Member
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

I have one more question to add to this: if you are recomending using the accent then controlling the bouces (i assume for ghost notes) how does one get enough bounce to ghost at very high speeds without the accent??

this has been my problem of late when doing a Rll Rll or Lrr Lrr.

I can get it okay at lower tempos, but at higher tempos I am unable to produce ghost notes without an accent.

any advice would be appreciated...............also, sorry to hijack this thread.
 
H

Henry II

Guest
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

k3ng said:
So I've been working on the Moeller alot, especially in traditional grip, and got sort of stumped at my speed. Sure it felt muce more relaxed and looser but didn't quite get speed into it.

But then I took a look at the Jojo Mayer video on the site about the Moeller (which I think is the best Moeller clip there is on this site), and saw him turn the Moeller over as he pumped the motion. I tried this and I think it's working for me, but I'm not too sure about it.

So I was thinking, since I don't really have a drum teacher at the moment, is there a specific way to know if you're doing the Moeller right?
Yes! Get Jim Chapin's video "Speed Power Control Endurance." It's all about the Moeller method. Jim was a student of Sanford Moeller. BTW, the Moeller method is absolutely essential for any serious drummer. But, it's not easy to master. Expect to practice several hours a day for at least 6 months before you can really employ it in your playing.

My advice: You can make it easier on yourself if you learn the Gladstone method first. It's much easier to learn than the Moeller method (you'll be able to execute it fairly well in a few weeks) and is really necessary to execute the Moeller method properly. Go to www.tigerbill.com. Look for a link called "Free Online Drum Lessons." From there, look for the 3 part lesson called "Building Monster Chops." They're all about the Gladstone method.
 
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Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan

Guest
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

Henry II said:
Yes! Get Jim Chapin's video "Speed Power Control Endurance." It's all about the Moeller method. Jim was a student of Sanford Moeller. BTW, the Moeller method is absolutely essential for any serious drummer. But, it's not easy to master. Expect to practice several hours a day for at least 6 months before you can really employ it in your playing.

My advice: You can make it easier on yourself if you learn the Gladstone method first. It's much easier to learn than the Moeller method (you'll be able to execute it fairly well in a few weeks) and is really necessary to execute the Moeller method properly. Go to www.tigerbill.com. Look for a link called "Free Online Drum Lessons." From there, look for the 3 part lesson called "Building Monster Chops." They're all about the Gladstone method.
I second that: learn the free stroke first. Also, get Dom Famularo's book, it explains it really well. I have watched the Jojo vid, and I don't think he really explains anything at all. Apart from that, everything is really hard to see because of the other pads obstructing the view. He is a character to watch, but it is not the most informative material, in my opinion. On this site, I recommend Dom's video's which really show the motion well. Two of them also feature Jim Chapin. I don't have Chepin's videos but I am sure they are worth the money. Cheers, DPS
 
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Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan

Guest
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

Drum4fun said:
I have one more question to add to this: if you are recomending using the accent then controlling the bouces (i assume for ghost notes) how does one get enough bounce to ghost at very high speeds without the accent??

this has been my problem of late when doing a Rll Rll or Lrr Lrr.

I can get it okay at lower tempos, but at higher tempos I am unable to produce ghost notes without an accent.

any advice would be appreciated...............also, sorry to hijack this thread.
Well, you can do it, but you will work harder. It is a bit strange, that an accent and two taps should be easier than three taps, but that's the way it is. In the end it comes down to the choices you make in any playing situation. DPS
 

centralzeke

Senior Member
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

Yeah, Moeller takes a lot of practice to get down.

I have it in my right hand but my left hand is nowhere near it. I also noticed I have Free Stroke perfected in my right, not in my left. That isn't a coincidence. Being really good at free strokes will help a lot!!
 

bean6022000

Junior Member
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

Dr.

I assume when you say the German grip you are referring to the nearly 90 degree "Moeller Grip" in the Jim Chapin video and not the restricted 45 degree grip that he also talks about in his video? By the way, thanks for the earlier tip you gave me. You were right about the Freehand and Moeller coming together and becoming seamless. I'm still working on the Moeller little finger grip. I really like it, as it so free and powerful and I have a REALLY bad habit of gripping the sticks too tightly with my thumb and index finger when playing fast and/or hard. The little finger hold has eliminated that! Of course some control is lost, but I'm getting there!
 

incubotic

Senior Member
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

yes the grip is critical for moeller. Gripping the stick with ur thumb and index limits the free bounce of the stick. if u grip loosely with the thumb and middle finger the stick will bounce freely in that little crack of open space. I noticed moeller was much easier with this grip. but yea getting it goin at high speeds is still difficult for me, so i'm just being patient and focusing on the fluidity of the movements til they are competely habitual, and using more rebound for speed. i'm sure it will pay off and my speed will come.

EDIT: Actually i guess i the grip is in between the index and middle finger basically.
 
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Casper "DrPowerStroke" Paludan

Guest
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

bean6022000 said:
Dr.

I assume when you say the German grip you are referring to the nearly 90 degree "Moeller Grip" in the Jim Chapin video and not the restricted 45 degree grip that he also talks about in his video? By the way, thanks for the earlier tip you gave me. You were right about the Freehand and Moeller coming together and becoming seamless. I'm still working on the Moeller little finger grip. I really like it, as it so free and powerful and I have a REALLY bad habit of gripping the sticks too tightly with my thumb and index finger when playing fast and/or hard. The little finger hold has eliminated that! Of course some control is lost, but I'm getting there!
You are very welcome! Yes, my German is forearms straight, wrists flush, palms down and sticks at a little less than 90 degrees. The starting position is identical for the low stroke and Moeller, but the difference is that in the low stroke, thumb and index are in control. Make sure you don't focus on pinky and ring finger exclusively. As I have stated elsewhere, they sometimes grip the stick, but I think the essential mindset for learning the Moeller should be changing the grip around a little and really feeling the stick "massaging" the hand. When you get this almost narcotic feeling, you will know instincively how to adjust it, because it will feel physically good! These little differences that nevertheless make a huge difference, are really interesting...DPS
 

k3ng

Silver Member
Re: How to know if you're getting the Moeller

Thanks alot DPS! Exactly what I needed to know about getting the Moeller. And I also believe in working on the Free Stroke first, since I already got and am currently using Dom's book. I think I pretty much got the Free Stroke/Gladstone down, and now its moeller pumping time.
 
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