MOELLER METHOD

haredrums

Silver Member
Very impressive! And very clean. Makes me drool because I don't have a full kit ;-)
Also thanks for the idea of getting the Moeller pumping around the kit, I wouldn't have thought of that.

My left (weaker) hand is better at pumping (w/ trad grip) than my right hand...
Hey Arky,

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it. It is pretty bizzare for your weaker hand to be stronger at a complicated motion like the Moeller! Could you maybe post a video of your moeller so we could check it out and give you feedback? I am honestly stumped about your issue.

By the way, I TOTALLY hear you on not having access to a full kit. If you check out my post about the Caravan Warmup on my blog, there is a seperate version that I designed just for the practice pad having often been in your situation myself.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
Hey Arky,

(...) It is pretty bizzare for your weaker hand to be stronger at a complicated motion like the Moeller! Could you maybe post a video of your moeller so we could check it out and give you feedback? I am honestly stumped about your issue.
I don't want to bore anybody with my beginner 'skills' (14 months into drums so far), also I'm the biggest video lurker on earth I guess... I do have a cheapo digicam but I shudder myself watching extremely low quality videos on YouTube etc.

Well I started practicing the Moeller technique, having watched videos by Weckl, Morello, and most recently, JoJo Mayer (his tutorial DVD). The Mayer DVD helped me to identify what can still be improved. I prefer a higher snare position, inspired by Todd Sucherman's setup. I've started practicing trad style about 10 months ago - don't remember exactly - but only gradually and after some months it started to really work and feel good. Now I'm doing 50% matched, 50% trad. I'm working at home, sitting at the PC most of the day. So I came up with placing the snare to the left of my workbench and thus, focus on my left hand. In this setup I'm practicing 90% trad grip with my left hand though. I guess I could catch up with matched/Moeller pumping but that will take quite some time.

This "PC workbench & snare at the left" setup is my way of multi tasking and saving time - I can practice my left hand as long as the right hand can handle the work. Same with feet - my double pedal sits right below the workbench. I can go on for hours 'down there' while working at the PC.

2 months ago my paradiddle record (matched) was 208 bpm, 1 month ago 216 bpm and lately I hit 220-230. Warmed up, I can do the paradiddle up to 220 bpm w/ trad. Not perfectly... Those are speeds I would hit for a few bars, then slow down etc. I'm switching grips very often and do both left and right hand leads (feet also with double bass) so please don't think that I'm only into speed.

Playing fast paradiddle and doing the pump single-handed/matched grip feels different to me, the latter is harder to do and the speed area is much lower. At least now, it might change with time. I still have some huge speed discrepancies, depending on the grip/technique. Thinking about this... One big reason might be that depending on the snare height some things are easier/harder. [I know there are several threads on this topic - snare tilt/height]. That's why I still prefer a higher snare to make the Moeller motion work better with my left hand/trad grip. Switching to matched, the pumping feels less comfortable. When I'm focusing on one grip for some time I'm readjusting the snare height/tilt accordingly. I haven't found one position which does the trick for both grips (for me). I guess if I focus more on matched grip and lower the snare, I might improve with the pumping.

(...) having often been in your situation myself.
I have 1 snare (& usually a pad on top), 1 hihat and 2 additional pads (1 is a moongel) so I can simulate a kit but almost never do so, still focusing on basics (or what I consider basics).

I'll keep practicing the pumping (both trad & matched) and in case my left hand will still be better within the next weeks, I'll think about making a video. I'm not in a hurry to show the world what I can (or rather can't) do in drumming ;-)

BTW, I can't (and absolutely don't want to) imagine where I would be now without the Moeller technique. I'm so glad someone invented this!!
 
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moontheloon

Silver Member
OK,

Here is a link to some more videos of me using Moeller strokes as a part of the warmup I developed. These are a little bit faster and move around the set more, so they should be a little bit more interesting/relevant to the discussion here. Check it out and let me know what you think:

http://haredrums.blogspot.com/2011/10/caravan-warmup-moving-moeller-strokes.html
your blog is fantastic.....

you now have a regular visiter in me

im having a blast with the caravan as we speak
 

haredrums

Silver Member
Hey Guys,

Moon- Thank you so much! I am glad you are feeling the warmup.

Uniongoon- I am an idiot, I totally get it now. And thank you again.

Arky- I couldn't agree more about the Moeller, I feel that it has opened up many musical possibilities for me. I wonder what kind of music you play and what your musical background is? Do you play with a group right now? I hope you decide to post a video so I can check out what you are working on. If you do, let me know.
 

JohnW

Silver Member
Hey Arky,

Thanks a lot, I appreciate it. It is pretty bizzare for your weaker hand to be stronger at a complicated motion like the Moeller! Could you maybe post a video of your moeller so we could check it out and give you feedback? I am honestly stumped about your issue.

By the way, I TOTALLY hear you on not having access to a full kit. If you check out my post about the Caravan Warmup on my blog, there is a seperate version that I designed just for the practice pad having often been in your situation myself.
This is just a theory about "Arky's Trad Moeller Left Hand Conundrum". Let's say you keep your forearms restrained horizontally so you can't play with a Moeller motion. Forget finger action for the time being. The only way you can effectively move the stick in the right hand is by bending your wrist up and down. But in the left hand, you don't even have that motion. You have to rotate the whole forearm. The right hand seems to have a lot more advantage in this restrictive setup.

So now you switch to the Moeller setup. Your shoulders, elbows and forerms are free to move and even though your left still wrist doesn't bend up and down, you get tremendous power. Same with the right hand. Except that the wrist in the right side can bend up and down, adding an extra mechanical link. One more pivot point and possibly to some players, another element of difficulty to control. Even if the player is a natural righty.

This is just a partially baked theory, but I have noticed some counter intuitive traits in my own right side/left side world. I am a righty, but throw a Frisbee with my left hand. I also use the mouse in my left hand.

-John
 

Arky

Platinum Member
(...) Arky- I couldn't agree more about the Moeller, I feel that it has opened up many musical possibilities for me. I wonder what kind of music you play and what your musical background is? Do you play with a group right now? I hope you decide to post a video so I can check out what you are working on. If you do, let me know.
haredrums,
I'm going to write a post in the YOUR PLACE section - should have done so when I joined this forum...

Playing the el. guitar since 1990, getting from hard rock into metal (playing AC/DC, then Scorpions, then Iron Maiden & Metallica, then some technical speed metal like Annihilator) and shred also (my faves are Jason Becker, Marty Friedman, Vinnie Moore...), with a focus on technique. I like the energy factor of metal but need to have some melodic aspect to it. I started drumming to get a better understanding of a drummer's mindset to get better at arranging drum parts for my gothic metal recording project (not actively working on this project ATM). As soon as I started I learned how much fun drumming is and I was hooked ;-)

Here are some snippets of my main recording project (genre: gothic metal/romantic doom; drums = Guitar Pro). This one is an instrumental, we'll also have vocal tracks (female vocals exclusively!):
http://www.myspace.com/sovenance

I did some contributions on other people's stuff, composing & recording lead guitar parts (I have a homestudio - no professional sound treatment, but great gear - lots of analog/tube stuff, with a bit digital stuff also). Here's a few snippets of riffs/ideas I created some months ago to give an idea of how my custom guitars by German luthier Siggi Braun sound like, and also present what I'm doing musically (drums = also Guitar Pro - sorry):

http://www.siggi-braun.com/de/custom_shop/198_sovenance_6.html
(my only 6-string electric)

http://www.siggi-braun.com/de/custom_shop/261_Natural.html
(one of my 3 7-strings)

At the bottom of those pages are links to the other 2 customs, there's a demo soundfile on each of them.

I've never been in a band and I haven't gigged _ever_. Some 3 years ago I also took up acoustic guitar, being inspired by Andy McKee (percussion style). I'll have a video shooting appointment in 2 1/2 weeks from now to record a bunch of orig. acoustic solo tunes and some instrumentals with my el. guitars also (I'm still working on those instrumentals right now, not finished yet). I have no plans what to do with my 'drumming', I'm simply continuing for now because it's fun and I'm making progress (no wonder in the beginning stage).
 

haredrums

Silver Member
I think it is great that you enjoy the drums enough to practice all of this difficult technique even if it is not your main instrument. I am impressed! I wish I had the discipline/energy to spend more time on the piano.

Thanks for posting your music.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
haredrums,
this time I have to thank you for your kind words ;-) Thanks for taking a listen.

Looking back on the years I spent playing the guitar... Now taking away 10 years and having picked up drums 10 years ago would make me a happy man now, haha. Also those custom guitars were built recently, before I got into drums. Had I known this... I'd chosen to have 3 instead of 4 guitars and spend the remaining 5-6k Euros on a decent drumkit. Next time!

I'd say the guitar is usually a 1-dimensional instrument, and if played by a real master can become a 2, maximum 3-dimensional instrument (e.g. creating 2 apparently independent rhythm/melody lines, or adding effects like flageolets or percussion elements). In comparison, the drums are a 3-/4-dimensional instrument by themselves, _all_ your limbs are going and you really have to crack your brain (that's how I perceived it). So I'm glad having gotten out of that one-dimensionality. Also the guitars aren't THE most important elements in my songs any more but I've degraded them to merely one out of many elements, with the drums being quite important for the overall impression of a composition (except if the tune - completely or on some spots - doesn't call for drums in the first place). Playing drums has changed the way I'm approaching songwriting - to the better!!
 

haredrums

Silver Member
Thanks Moontheloon!

I really appreciate the feedback. My current recording device (HD Flip) really sucks for cymbal sound, but I am glad the playing came through anyways.
 

moontheloon

Silver Member
Thanks Moontheloon!

I really appreciate the feedback. My current recording device (HD Flip) really sucks for cymbal sound, but I am glad the playing came through anyways.
keep sharing the licks and practice exercises.......I live for that stuff....

plus your style is right up my alley
 

Wavelength

Platinum Member
I really appreciate the feedback. My current recording device (HD Flip) really sucks for cymbal sound, but I am glad the playing came through anyways.
Very nice playing with a good touch! The rolls were in my opinion very close to the the brink of overplaying, but I guess that's valid for really underlining the concept you were striving to convey.

The videos would really benefit from a better audio quality. A lot of dynamic information seems to get lost due to compression. I can heartily recommend the Zoom H2 for its great price and sound quality. I have a few videos on my YouTube channel if you want to check out what it sounds like.
 

haredrums

Silver Member
The videos would really benefit from a better audio quality. A lot of dynamic information seems to get lost due to compression. I can heartily recommend the Zoom H2 for its great price and sound quality. I have a few videos on my YouTube channel if you want to check out what it sounds like.
Thanks for the feedback Wavelength!

I listened to some of your videos and they/you sound great! I have heard great things about the Zoom H2. How is it terms of ease of use?
 

uniongoon

Gold Member
This is such a long thread, and this sentiment has probably been mentioned, but I just bought the 2007 Jojo Mayer secret weapons video and he does an incredible job disecting all the different levels of the moeller. And seeing as he learned it from Chapin, very close to the original source, lends even more credibility. Recently I have had a few big name guys explain it to me, and none delivered the message this well.
 
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