Metronome Practice NEED HELP!

vxla

Silver Member
If a band is playing at 208, and you can only play at 176, you're out of the band. Sometimes speed is required.
Obviously that's going to be an issue, but I hear far more mediocre drummers who can't keep time when the spaces are longer between notes than those who can't playing 200bpm.
 

TMe

Senior Member
...I hear far more mediocre drummers who can't keep time when the spaces are longer between notes than those who can't playing 200bpm.
Granted, but if somebody wants to play a very quick style of music, they need speed before they can even get started, so they push for speed first and then, once they hit their goals, they start working on finesse.

That's the theory, anyway. Some guys just push for "More! More! More!!!" speed, and that's just a waste of time. (Pardon the pun.) If the band plays at 176, and the drummer can play at 208, why is the drummer still pushing for more speed? There are other things to work on.
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
False. Playing a slower tempo that you've never played before is playing a tempo you haven't achieved yet. :)
I won't get into whether slower or faster is easier/harder. They both have their own unique challenges.
What a great post

I have spent 20 years in metal and punk bands always PUSHING myself to the next level.. playing some slow stuff is tough for me because I feel the need to fill everything up with a ton of notes and tend to want to rush due to it.. I have spent a few years working on my slower playing. both are hard, both are necessary at times.. Both take dedication and practice. Speed doesn't matter most of the time compared to meter and timing.
 

nfreebs

Junior Member
I have seen multiple teaching resources say not to stay at just one tempo longer than 20 minutes. Make it slower or faster, change it up. I think that this helps me.


I haven't heard that before but i have def experienced this. after 20 min at one tempo i started over thinking and lose the real space in the pulse
 

danondrums

Well-known member
What a great post

I have spent 20 years in metal and punk bands always PUSHING myself to the next level.. playing some slow stuff is tough for me because I feel the need to fill everything up with a ton of notes and tend to want to rush due to it.. I have spent a few years working on my slower playing. both are hard, both are necessary at times.. Both take dedication and practice. Speed doesn't matter most of the time compared to meter and timing.
There's no glory in the slow tempos with large silences between notes, but it can share give you some confidence on the kit and make the fast stuff start to sound a lot slower somehow. I love that youtube video where Matt Garstka improvs at 50 bpm.

 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
What a beast. He is always someone I enjoy watching. I'm talking about playing a slow groove for an extended time. Having to play music that the drums sound like a good portion of that with chops, fills, double kick, blast beats as fast I can, There is a ton of 200bpm+ 16th notes to fill up the spectrum. When I play a nice slow groove there is SO much space. When jamming solo I love it because I can toss in ripping linear chops all over the place (much like he is doing in this video) but in a band setting that doesn't work. THAT is where restraint, timing, and practice comes in to play. It's tough to play slow. Personally I find it much easier to play things fast.

Another thing is at 220 bpm, by the time you make a mistake, you are already in the next bar. If you are slightly off things are blazing by so fast it's tough to notice, the distance between the notes is shorter too so it's actualy less noticeable as well. When you are playing something slow and you mess up with all that space it is VERY obvious. if you rush a fill it's also going to stand out more.
 

TMe

Senior Member
When you are playing something slow and you mess up with all that space it is VERY obvious.
I watched a video of Bon Jovi playing live. I hate that band, but still... I was impressed by how stressful the drummers's job was. The guy was playing with real power, but the song was moving at a glacial pace. The drum part was all empty space. I thought, if that guy misses one note by the tiniest fraction, everybody in the audience is going to hear it, clear as day. That would probably be the only moment most of that audience even noticed the drums.

Whereas when I listen to some super fast chops monsters, I think they could just throw their huge kits down a long flight of stairs and not many people would hear the difference.
 

danondrums

Well-known member
What a beast. He is always someone I enjoy watching. I'm talking about playing a slow groove for an extended time. Having to play music that the drums sound like a good portion of that with chops, fills, double kick, blast beats as fast I can, There is a ton of 200bpm+ 16th notes to fill up the spectrum. When I play a nice slow groove there is SO much space. When jamming solo I love it because I can toss in ripping linear chops all over the place (much like he is doing in this video) but in a band setting that doesn't work. THAT is where restraint, timing, and practice comes in to play. It's tough to play slow. Personally I find it much easier to play things fast.

Another thing is at 220 bpm, by the time you make a mistake, you are already in the next bar. If you are slightly off things are blazing by so fast it's tough to notice, the distance between the notes is shorter too so it's actualy less noticeable as well. When you are playing something slow and you mess up with all that space it is VERY obvious. if you rush a fill it's also going to stand out more.
Totally. Those slow, space filled grooves remind me of a mountain bike term of "exposed." It refers to a trail, that if you make any mistake on, will be pretty painful. Had to learn the song Old Love by Clapton (really terrible song by the way) which is 71bpm where anything more than a 1/4 note on the hi-hat was way too busy. Playing this song left me feeling very exposed. Like all things, with repetitions it eventually can be played to sound smooth and confident, but it was very much a humbling time admitting how "not very good" the first few attempts were.
 

Dr_Watso

Platinum Member
Unless the music you want to play requires weird crazy edge of your seat stuff, focusing on "speed" as a newer player is a complete waste of time. Doing things fast is literally one of the least important aspects to being a good musician and drummer. Sure it's impressive, but for real drummers making music, most of it comes from other skills, like hitting figures mid beat, or controlling dynamics, or keeping normal speeds consistent.

The cool part is, if you focus on music and fundamental skills, speed will just sort of happen up to the speeds that you normally actually would use.
 

Odd-Arne Oseberg

Platinum Member
Don't think I can be objectiv with "Old Love". Journeyman was a very important album in my formative years. Eric was my first guitar hero. Production makes it sound a bit date, even though we're sort of back to a lot that these days.

Outside of a certain type of organic fusion I'm tired of most music myself. Haven't kicked on anything since the Five Peace Band album, really. Playing music live for people who get an experience out of it is different, though. Providing an experience and inspiring the next generation, those are my two jobs.

In any case, it's a required skill and as far as I know it's Keltner playing on that one, doing what the song requires perfectly.

Here with Steve:

 

danondrums

Well-known member
Don't think I can be objectiv with "Old Love". Journeyman was a very important album in my formative years. Eric was my first guitar hero. Production makes it sound a bit date, even though we're sort of back to a lot that these days.

Outside of a certain type of organic fusion I'm tired of most music myself. Haven't kicked on anything since the Five Peace Band album, really. Playing music live for people who get an experience out of it is different, though. Providing an experience and inspiring the next generation, those are my two jobs.

In any case, it's a required skill and as far as I know it's Keltner playing on that one, doing what the song requires perfectly.

Here with Steve:

Interesting.
Gadd plays 8th notes with right hand and plays bass drum on 1 and 3.
Keltner kept the 1/4 notes with the right hand and bass drum on 1 and the "and" of 2 to keep with the rest of the band.

I still say it's a terrible song. It's a slow song written about banging ex's. I'm not sure I'd ever slow dance to this. :)
 

beyondbetrayal

Platinum Member
There is the flip side, if you want to play fast skate punk, or extreme death metal, Speed is needed and something to work for. But I still teach students wanting to learn this stuff how to play slow FIRST. Walk before running. If not you learn to be one of those drummers that can play a few beats and fills real fast, with no freedom. Learning slow and naturally gaining speed you have the freedom to play more.
 

5050isme

New member
Hi everyone I’m fairly new to drumming and self-taught. I’ve recently been focusing on getting my techniques down to where I’m happy with, (ect Finger technique wrist technique) The method I’ve been using for single strokes is I’ll start at 60BPM work through the sub divisions 8th notes 16th notes for a minute or so then bump it up to 65BPM.
Feel like I’m getting abit obsessed with the metronome I keep second guessing myself instead of progressing I’m back where I’ve started at 60, never really feel like I’m getting anywhere. Should I stay at 60 for a few days then increase the speed or not?
Problem I’ve been finding is there’s so many teachers saying different things increase or don’t increase the metronome it’s difficult to know what to do as a beginner. I’m really enjoying drumming and won’t stop. I’m sure there’s plenty of others in my shoes I’ll be grateful if someone could help cheers Dan
This is great. You are starting with some really SOLID fundamentals, which you should congratulate yourself on, Seriously. So many, Too Many people don’t recognize the importance of playing with the metronome. If you are after fast hands, be patient. My suggestion would be to record yourself at 60 BPM, once you sound perfect and you believe it’s the best you, then speed it up. Speed is built over years; and isn’t what makes a drummer great. Being able to play time is what we get paid for and recognized.

If you want to make it more Interesting and build independence, there are some great ways to incorporate your feet into the mix, Play Quarter Notes in groups of Threes w. Your feet. BOOM BOOM CHA, BOOM BOOM CHA. BASS BASS HIHAT. Each one is a quarter note. Play your rudiment inside of that .,
Boom = Beat 1
Boom = Beat 2
Cha. = Beat 3

Play quarters, 8th, triplets, 16 th, 5’s, 6’s 7,s 32 seconds inside of each beat. Trust me, you’ll want to put the metronome on 30 BPM’s. Do this with all of your rudiments; go for accuracy, sound, and timing first, the speed will come. Play these at different volumes. This will help you build the muscles for stick control and muscle memory and before long, you’ll be crushing any temp you want
 

danondrums

Well-known member
By glory I mean, appearances on mainstream TV (Letterman, Carson) and mentions in drum magazines/publications and other similar type of events measured to some degree by how much the audience is focusing on the drummer. One may not like the statement "there's no glory in slow tempos with long silence between notes," but I think it's pretty accurate, at least based on my original intention of the statement.

Glory is a poor reason to go about any endeavor so this reality shouldn't really bother anyone serious about their instrument.
 

TMe

Senior Member
By glory I mean...
It's true. Some of the cheesiest stuff gets the best audience response. A drummer who makes the band sound great hardly gets noticed.

But... real music fans and musicians notice. So if that's who you're playing for...

Or you could be a guy who plays amazing solos but then just phones it in while playing with the rest of the band, or keeps soloing to upstage the band.

All valid options.
 
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danondrums

Well-known member
It's true. Some of the cheesiest stuff gets the best audience response. A drummer who makes the band sound great hardly gets noticed.

But... real music fans and musicians notice. So if that's who you're playing for...

Or you could be a guy who plays amazing solos but then just phones it in while playing with the rest of the band, or keeps soloing to upstage the band.

All valid options.
I'm just playing for the fun of it. :) All I hope is that nobody "notices" any bad playing that prevents them from having a good time. So I keep practicing to reduce those moments down to zero. :)
 

TMe

Senior Member
All I hope is that nobody "notices" any bad playing that prevents them from having a good time. So I keep practicing to reduce those moments down to zero. :)
I hear ya. I like justifying the simplicity of my playing as "minimalism" and my lack of flash as "taste". Mostly, though, I just say I'm not that great a drummer.

But... some of my favourite drummers really are minimalists with good taste.
 
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