Maybe I am old but I just don’t understand this

[cbphoto]

Most complaints I’ve read, both here and abroad, are more of diary entry of someone dealing with Instrument/band/recording issues. Occasionally there’s a post by The Whiner, but he’s easily ignored.

Back in the day of Prodigy and UNET, there was nothing but solutions to hardware & software problems. Later, a forum on Yahoo! Groups for film scanning was nothing but problem solving.

 

[felonious69]

I like reviews. Sometimes they have helped me avoid bad situations and sometimes I didn't take them to heart and should have.
When I have AWESOME service...like I ALWAYS do from Sweetwater...I tell everyone.
Actual example.
I wanted to buy her a sewing machine.
The one I wanted they didn't have at "My local Walmart" (Like a $600 Brother machine) I searched a different store, one that was on the way home from work, still.
They had it!
I really wanted to get this for her! Then I saw the "star rating" of that particular store...so I started reading the reviews...ALL BAD!
Anyway...I wanted it, so at the store, even though their site said they had it, it was not on the shelf (where it's barcode was).
I went a couple aisles over and found a Walmart dude and said: "Excuse me, but can I bother you a minute?"
He looked up at me, gave an "irritated" sigh and said "Well I guess you can!". (Seriously snotty tone!)
I was P****D! I said, "Oh I'm sorry, I thought you worked here. I didn't know that AWSOME VEST was a fashion statement you F***ing D**k!".
I left, and waited for my store to have it delivered to me.
I should have heeded the reviews.
Same company, different location/crew.

For THIS forum, I came totally uninformed and seeking good, sound drum gear/technique advise and found it!

 

[Darth Vater]

Good stores/dealers will hook you up if there's any kind of issue. You also have additional layers of protection with credit cards and PayPal. I'm always nice first if there's an issue and will offer to send photos to help clarify things and make matters go more smoothly. It's also good to know what a dealer/vendor's return policy is BEFORE you buy.

I agree with @RickP that some of these peeps are as helpless as new born babes! Stop whining and sort it out.

 

[felonious69]

I think that one BIG problem is the prevalence of fraud...how widespread it is, especially on the web. It's good to have a (somewhat) reliable review source to learn of the experiences others had, whether good or bad.
I have raved about the great service I receive from one particular company, and (on here) I see that it is pretty much the general consensus with said company. Also seems to be consistent, in the adverse for another particular company.
I am all for helping great companies while outing questionable ones, as long as it's legitimate criticism.

 

[s1212z]

Old people complaining about young people who complain too much....anyone else see this beautiful irony here? Assuming they are young complainers too (they are probably old too, lol!).

I learned recently it's worth getting B stock BBs because the black nickel scuffs easily. I found this informative, why pay more than necessary.
The A&F defects that were brought up recently by several members were legit QC issues, their parts are delicate with super thin shells and the drums themselves are pretty expensive; seems you really have to baby them and even that isn't enough....good to know, proceed with caution.
The recent SQ1 thread...well, someone was sold a mishandled lemon and was seeking advice from other SQ1 owners, not really a big deal except for the unfortunate soul who got a shit set (but apparently reading about it is worst?)

 

[GretschedHive]

I see more and more people taking to forums to complain about some members discussing some slight or defect in workmanship rather than just skipping the threads. Is it that they need validation from forum members that they are feeling the right emotions?
Is it because they are angry and want to spread their vitriol with the posters or the board to a larger audience? I just don’t get it.

 

[Bo Eder]

well if a drum has bad QC then i think it’s right that people know of it. i do not condone cancel culture but i don’t think it really applies here. if a brand made a faulty kit, it should be known. forums also exist to aid others who you share something in common with, what would a forum be without any discussion?

Discussion, yes. Bitching and whining, no.

 

[larryace]

Social media and every thing that goes along with it....like everything, there's a good and bad side. Good side, great advertising, widespread saturation for a song...bad side, you'd better deliver the goods and fix any problems quickly and awesomely. Companies need to factor in the good here and not just whine about the bad. We are the boss here, we spend the money, we have the power over our wonderful fiat currency that we get to keep.

It's not our issue to protect or condemn any company. However I accept both kinds of comments if they are factual and not opinion. It's the companies responsibility to do right by us. Not the other way around. We don't cowtow to the help, think of it that way. We "hire" them. Don't forfeit power. Defending companies QC mistakes is not in OUR best interest as the drumming community. And we, as a whole, trump any company, period. Power over the marketplace is what we have by what we support, I like that feeling. I'm free to do and say what I please about a sales experience if it's all factual. People over companies, please.

My job is tough too. I do what I have to do to get the job done. Which get's increasingly more complex with every new Code cycle. I don't feel bad for any company, and they don't need to feel bad for me. It's just business. I have my issues, they have theirs. My issue is not their problem and verse vice-a. Companies need to be responsible for their output. I'm a company. I am so responsible for my output, I'm it. Why should I be concerned if some company goes under? If they did they couldn't make it work, that's all. They never defended me for anything. Someone will fill their void. No skin off my back.

 

[Xstr8edgtnrdrmrX]

I concur. Sadly, this is a part of the current “cancel culture” we live in. Someone has a bad experience, and rather than get it dealt with and fixed, they rally others on the internet to shine a bad light on a company or business, and in effect, influencing others to not buy their products. It makes people feel good to be part of a mob, I suppose.

It’s amazing when I go online and see how many small businesses are just destroyed when people gang up on them via something as innocuous as Yelp.

in both cases...everyone is looking for their "15 seconds"...at the expense of others...which is also a huge, sad, tennet of current "social" society

I didn't start using forums until 2015ish...I was even late to that, and have NEVER used any phone based social media

 

[felonious69]

I agree with Larry. At my place of employ, I am known for being extremely helpful and positive.
My last review, my boss even wrote: "I don't think I have ever worked with anyone who is always upbeat" (referring to me)

Also stated was the incredible, detailed and informative notes I take and keep on these jobs that help make it easier for anyone who has to do it in the future.

I act like that at work because that is what they hired and pay me for...in my opinion.

That is also why expect great customer service for something I am paying for.

 

[pgm554]

It's called keeping them honest.
Ludwig and the Carl Palmer Venus snare is a good example of calling them out for poor business practices.
I paid over $350 for a snare that was known to be defective from the factory with a design flaw.
It wasn't until I contacted Carl and his management that Ludwig took notice that they screwed up ,otherwise they would have just kept on selling it and buyer be damned.

If they do a good job ,you give kudos and help spread the word.
Had a busted tension knob on an older Mapex snare.
They sent me a new throw for free when I asked where to buy the broken part.

 

[DrumEatDrum]

Reviews get posted. It's the information age. People share information, good, bad, or otherwise.

 

[bongoman]

A lot to unpack here.

For one, all the posts using the phrase “cancel culture” are really telling on themselves. When regular people demand accountability from the rich and powerful, suddenly wah wah cancel culture. Yet those rich and powerful people keep getting fat contracts, book deals, and spots on TV and in the NYT to talk about how they were canceled. It’s baloney. People need to be held accountable for their words and deeds.

For another, everyone saying “just deal with it on your own”, really—we’re supposed to fix bad bearing edges, oval shells, flaking chrome, and other QC problems? We spent hundreds or thousands on a product and we’re supposed to suck it up and do the manufacturer’s job for them? Do you mean we should talk to the manufacturer? Have you even tried to do that? Sure maybe in a few cases, a small brand or where you have an endorsement deal, but most companies have been making it harder and harder to even reach a real person on the phone, let alone someone who can resolve a QC issue.

I have seen dozens of cases where a person was not able to get satisfaction from a brand until they applied pressure via forums or social media. I went through three different CS reps at TC Electronics trying to resolve a defective product, over weeks, and finally I wrote a scathing public post about them, and what do you know, suddenly I get a call from someone at the company who could help. Weird!

 

[mpthomson]

well if a drum has bad QC then i think it’s right that people know of it. i do not condone cancel culture but i don’t think it really applies here. if a brand made a faulty kit, it should be known. forums also exist to aid others who you share something in common with, what would a forum be without any discussion?

Every manufacturer makes faulty kits/drums on occasion. As long as it's put right with the minimum of hassle for the buyer then it's not a problem.

 

[Chunkaway]

I see more and more people taking to forums to complain about some slight or defect in workmanship ship rather than just dealing with it themselves . Is it that they need validation from forum members that they are doing the right thing
Is it because they are angry and want to spread their vitriol with the company or store to a larger market ? I just don’t get it .

If so have a problem with something I purchased , I deal with it in a polite and respectful manner . Sure there are instances when I have got angry with store or company but I still deal with it on my own . I don’t need to have people validating my anger or piling on with negative experiences ( most that have nothing to do with my issue ).

So, where is the line drawn? I believe you had a bad experience with. Gretsch drum set that you owned. You have written about it on more than one occasion is how I know. So, where does something like that fall?

 

[RickP]

So, where is the line drawn? I believe you had a bad experience with. Gretsch drum set that you owned. You have written about it on more than one occasion is how I know. So, where does something like that fall?

Excuse me ? Are you talking about the right person here ? The only Gretsch kit I owned that I had issue with was strictly the way they make wrapped kits nowadays . I sold the kit . I did not go on various forums and complain about Gretsch and their poor service . I did not ask for advice on what I thought was a manufacturing design issue . I did my own research on how Gretsch cut back the wrap from the bearing edge and that was it . The only thing I have written is to advise potential Gretsch buyers of the way Gretsch cuts back the wrap . Some people do not find issue with it , some do . Gretsch due to their 1/16” undersized shells is forced to cut back the wrap as far from the bearing edge as they do so heads will seat properly . I did not ask Gretsch to make me a new drum set or complain to a Gretsch dealer .

My contention in my original post is not about people advising people of issues they have experienced . Sure reviews are helpful . What ai have issues with are people that want to involve everyone in the world with THEIR issue ! These pages long threads . I mean seriously deal with the Company yourself , let the Company have the opportunity to make amends and fix their oversight. People are so quick to broadcast to everyone of any middling little problem they come up against . Now I am not saying that people should voice their complained to a company for a product they own . My issue is why do they feel they need to report on every conversation to as many people as they can about their problem .
I realize it is a sign of the times with social media but it is not for me .

 

[GetAgrippa]

It’s social media so people talk about all kinds of stuff-I expect it. We share getting sick or injury whatever is happening to you in real time we share like the person is there. Like my daughter sends videos of my grand baby - she floated for 30 second solo . I can see most thinking that’s bullcrap.
I joined a deer hunting club a few years back-had an app to check so know where every one is. I per usual first day of season stealth sneak in and sit quietly awaiting light and activity. Birds chirping then my phone buzzes -all the hunters have a group thread. OMG it was constant chit chat the whole time. Damn fellas y’all hunt? I told them to take me off the damn thing I came for peace and quiet. They got all indignant and then I became a joke “Who is Art/ is he real” because I never associated with the dipshits and their chit chat. I’d send them pics or videos of all the bucks I was seeing and passing on- they weren’t seeing anything. Hee,hee,hee .Snywsys social media of any kind can be annoying

 

[Chunkaway]

Excuse me ? Are you talking about the right person here ? The only Gretsch kit I owned that I had issue with was strictly the way they make wrapped kits nowadays . I sold the kit . I did not go on various forums and complain about Gretsch and their poor service . I did not ask for advice on what I thought was a manufacturing design issue . I did my own research on how Gretsch cut back the wrap from the bearing edge and that was it . The only thing I have written is to advise potential Gretsch buyers of the way Gretsch cuts back the wrap . Some people do not find issue with it , some do . Gretsch due to their 1/16” undersized shells is forced to cut back the wrap as far from the bearing edge as they do so heads will seat properly . I did not ask Gretsch to make me a new drum set or complain to a Gretsch dealer .

My contention in my original post is not about people advising people of issues they have experienced . Sure reviews are helpful . What ai have issues with are people that want to involve everyone in the world with THEIR issue ! These pages long threads . I mean seriously deal with the Company yourself , let the Company have the opportunity to make amends and fix their oversight. People are so quick to broadcast to everyone of any middling little problem they come up against . Now I am not saying that people should voice their complained to a company for a product they own . My issue is why do they feel they need to report on every conversation to as many people as they can about their problem .
I realize it is a sign of the times with social media but it is not for me .

I think I understand the difference now. Your first post was interpreted by me as negatively viewing people who are venting about being unhappy with a product or a company. I want to know if a company has done right or has screwed someone over. I think you are talking more about the recent Sonor thread and ones similar to that where the OP drags the thread on and on. My mistake.

 

[PorkPieGuy]

I get why people vent frustrations on here. I mean, if you spend top dollar on a factory-fresh drum, there's a certain level of expectation you have...just like there's a certain expectation at my job that I do my best to provide. If something is my fault, I'm usually pretty quick to apologize and do my best to resolve the issue quickly. I really believe that a lot of drum companies do the same thing.

The general sense I get is both retailers (including big box retailers) and drum manufacturers do a pretty darn good job fixing problems. The timeline is always slower than wanted, but I feel that many more problems get resolved than not.

Also, it's good to talk about disappointments with other folks who can relate. Reading empathetic responses and rational responses are nice when disappointment happens. There's so much good advice on here as to how to respond, I think it helps.

With all of this said, I do think it's wrong to bash an entire company because of a one-off incident. Companies that flat-out rip people off is a different discussion, especially if there's a history. I appreciate the warning.

 

[J-W]

What ai have issues with are people that want to involve everyone in the world with THEIR issue !

My issue is why do they feel they need to report on every conversation to as many people as they can about their problem .

Am I the only one seeing the irony/hypocrisy here?