Marketing Drums to Individuality

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Are you joking? The melodies are clear as day. Most people hear the loudest notes of chords as the melody- often the highest note. There's no suspension* of disbelief there.

Like many others are saying, it seems like a personal issue is trying to be made into a large argument here. The problem, that argument is ridiculous.

Also, BFY: Good taste in examples there :)
Nah, I'm pretty sure that's just the amp: band pass filter and amplified line noise with a little mud thrown in there. No personal expression or creativity whatsoever... La di da
 

MrPockets

Gold Member
It's fine that you don't like guitarists that distort their sound. It's weird (and socially awkward) how you are expressing it.

I would bet that Dave Mustaine's amps are as clean as you can possible get. No mud or distortion coming from his stack.

Also, the ability to use electricity to alter sound helps create a guitarists individual sound, which is what you wanted drummer to have...
 

porter

Platinum Member
This just in: distorted guitars have no personal expression or creativity. Doesn't matter what you play on them, they just aren't creative. Thank god this person was able to figure it out! Now we can all go express ourselves on the cajon. Everybody knows that's where the real individuality shines!!

Literally all sound is just noise. It takes a human ear to decipher that noise into a pitch. I suppose in that way, you are correct in terming it a suspense [sic] of disbelief, much how colors aren't technically colors, just waves/particles interpreted by an eye. But that's kind of a necessary suspension for the recognition of music and art.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
This just in: distorted guitars have no personal expression or creativity. Doesn't matter what you play on them, they just aren't creative. Thank god this person was able to figure it out! Now we can all go express ourselves on the cajon. Everybody knows that's where the real individuality shines!!

Literally all sound is just noise. It takes a human ear to decipher that noise into a pitch. I suppose in that way, you are correct in terming it a suspense [sic] of disbelief, much how colors aren't technically colors, just waves/particles interpreted by an eye. But that's kind of a necessary suspension for the recognition of music and art.
And a power chord is a thing that I have been known to unplug from the wall. I like it when the band uses the same surge strip, you can take'm all out with one yank.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
..............with one yank.
Come on now. It takes you more than one tiny little yank........this thread is living proof. :)

Anyway, I fear you're just pulling the piss now. Fair enough. I'm always down with some mindless drivel as a cheap source of entertainment too. I can be found at a local bar engaging in it for hours. But just on the slightest chance you're serious, it's abundantly clear why you can't get hired. You do realise that don't you?
 

Mikecore

Silver Member
Is this Carl King? (This guy, for those wondering).

I know pretty well where this guy is coming from. The only thing that has me flummoxed is whether he's serious, or working some kind of elaborate meme.

My read on this entire thing is that we're dealing with some kind of condescending hipster approach to drumming; as though we are all sheeping around with our drumset toys, buying all of that big-money BS that the corporate drum makers are selling us, while he alone has risen beyond the confines of our silly little toy, and pines for REAL musicians to join in his quest for....whatever.

If this is a serious discussion, then it's been poorly premised. The existence of drumsets and amplified guitar in modern music is a function of the culture. The marketing follows that lest they go out of business. If you want to see drumming assume a different form, and do so in a different musical context, then it's up to you to create that new approach. As Zappa said: "You don't have to worry about whether it sounds good or not. We have music critics to tell us about that".

OR....

It could be such a psycho-epistemological devotion to collectivism that the very idea of individual activity is regarded as highly distasteful...if not entirely unacceptable. A Borg, perhaps?

Nah. Just a snob, I think.
 

poika

Silver Member
The thing about new things is that when (errr...if) everybody else jumps on board and starts using aforementioned percussion instead of the drum set - then everybody sounds the same all over again.

I personally have no problem with everybody else - or most of the people - sounding the same.
Hopefully I bring enough of something of my own into it so that I stand out.
Or then not. Doesn't really matter anyway.

The discussion here lately has been kinda developing into a "me vs the rest" mentality, where a single poster defends his (often very strange) opinions in a way that is actually not conversation.
I don't like when this happens and people kind of gang up on someone, but this thing is so stupid that it's either someone trolling, or someone you just can't have a normal conversation with. We all know those people, the ones who know everything and never budge.

Either way, no one wins.

It's a shame really, because this could have been an interesting subject
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
The thing about new things is that when (errr...if) everybody else jumps on board and starts using aforementioned percussion instead of the drum set - then everybody sounds the same all over again.

I personally have no problem with everybody else - or most of the people - sounding the same.
Hopefully I bring enough of something of my own into it so that I stand out.
Or then not. Doesn't really matter anyway.

The discussion here lately has been kinda developing into a "me vs the rest" mentality, where a single poster defends his (often very strange) opinions in a way that is actually not conversation.
I don't like when this happens and people kind of gang up on someone, but this thing is so stupid that it's either someone trolling, or someone you just can't have a normal conversation with. We all know those people, the ones who know everything and never budge.

Either way, no one wins.

It's a shame really, because this could have been an interesting subject
It is a shame, you would think that through the internet people would look forward to being exposed to different points of view and different culture, but counter intuitively the internet has just become a mega tool for marketeers to push that one point of view and that one product that everyone has to have, obliterating creativity and demanding that everyone listen to the same music such as King Crimson, like a farmer eating his own seed. All I am saying is, why can't that one drum product everyone has to have, be reconfigured to interact well with other similar drum products.
 
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Andy

Administrator
Staff member
counter intuitively the internet has just become a mega tool for marketeers to push that one point of view and that one product that everyone has to have, obliterating creativity and demanding that everyone listen to the same music such as King Crimson, like a farmer eating his own seed.
As a small independent marketeer, we're right on the sharp edge of innovation & creativity, & the internet is a tool that facilitates that, not stifles it. Without the internet, such ventures would be doomed to failure, as they would be totally reliant on passing trade & media marketing, thus forcing them to cater for mass consumption. I think you need to take a wider view.
 

shemp

Silver Member
No disrespect to the original premise or poster...but there are a multitude of interesting and less popular percussion instruments that can fit with the more popular instruments. In fact, *found* percussion can be very interesting and unique. Doesn't Slipknot use beer kegs sometimes?

The individual has access to tools...tools that have a pretty good degree of awareness...to go out and select something off the beaten path and create something unique. The desire is the key...someone is influenced by X, Y and Z and what seems cool to them is to try and build their own skill to try and sound like X, Y and Z....Thats the genesis for lots of folks that get into music...or basketball...or lots of things

In the end, lots of times people find their own voice after trying to speak like X, Y and Z. If you find that distasteful, ok, no problem there...then you have a wide berth to go out and do something unique
 

poika

Silver Member
It is a shame, you would think that through the internet people would look forward to being exposed to different points of view and different culture, but counter intuitively the internet has just become a mega tool for marketeers to push that one point of view and that one product that everyone has to have, obliterating creativity and demanding that everyone listen to the same music such as King Crimson, like a farmer eating his own seed. All I am saying is, why can't that one drum product everyone has to have, be reconfigured to interact well with other similar drum products.

you know, I don't listen to King Crimson.
I happen to find enjoyment in the Japanese woodblock printing as well as the Russian balet. Or the döner kebab cuisine of Germany, or the American jazz music of the early 20th century. Etc.
I used to play all kinds of percussion in an afrobeat band along with a drumset player and other percussionists. Never had a problem with drums not fitting in with aux percussion. Sometimes we had up to 20 people on stage playing. It was a great experience!
I also don't really make any kind of decisions based on marketing.
In fact I consider marketing to be a good thing, since it exposes products to the public and to the players, and we can then use our own judgement to make decisions based on what is best for us in the situation we are in.

In the end, all you are doing is making assumptions, and those assumptions actually tell more about you than anything else.

But this is kind of fun, tho
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
It is a shame, you would think that through the internet people would look forward to being exposed to different points of view and different culture, but counter intuitively the internet has just become a mega tool for marketeers to push that one point of view and that one product that everyone has to have, obliterating creativity and demanding that everyone listen to the same music such as King Crimson, like a farmer eating his own seed. All I am saying is, why can't that one drum product everyone has to have, be reconfigured to interact well with other similar drum products.
I guess you've never heard Glenn Kotche http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwekSyWxcgg
 

BacteriumFendYoke

Platinum Member
you know, I don't listen to King Crimson.
I happen to find enjoyment in the Japanese woodblock printing as well as the Russian balet. Or the döner kebab cuisine of Germany, or the American jazz music of the early 20th century. Etc.
I used to play all kinds of percussion in an afrobeat band along with a drumset player and other percussionists. Never had a problem with drums not fitting in with aux percussion. Sometimes we had up to 20 people on stage playing. It was a great experience!
I also don't really make any kind of decisions based on marketing.
In fact I consider marketing to be a good thing, since it exposes products to the public and to the players, and we can then use our own judgement to make decisions based on what is best for us in the situation we are in.

In the end, all you are doing is making assumptions, and those assumptions actually tell more about you than anything else.

But this is kind of fun, tho
I think the Venn Diagram of 'human' and 'listens to King Crimson' is small as well. I was using them as an example of instruments sounding hugely different even in the same band but our new troll SmoothOperator doesn't seem to quite get it.

SmoothOperator, you are making a lot of presumptions regarding the individual tastes of members here. I listen to Onkyokei, Noise, Rock, Post-Rock, Baroque, Indian Classical, 20th-Century Classical, IDM, Electronica, Glitch and just about anything else that interests me. I don't look at 'drums', I look at different rhythmic tools, with drums just being one example.

With that said, you'll often find that the sound set that establishes rhythm on a composition is limited to a few sounds simply because of the nature of rhythm in Western music. Comparative to other forms (specifically Indian Classical but there are others), Western music's development of rhythm is basic. Harmony is generally more developed than rhythm and the possibilities for rhythmic interaction is quite limited. There's nothing to say that it has to be - but that is the historical precedent.

If you're interested in listening to something 'interesting' that is highly rhythmic and Western, then give Aphex Twin's 'Formula'. There's a huge rhythmic soundset that intermingles. Trying to reproduce it with conventional percussion would be an (interesting) exercise in futility). I think computers are largely the future for 'new' percussion but I'm open to other ideas.

Please don't presume that we're all stuck into some kind of rhythmic mediocrity.
 
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