Marketing Drums to Individuality

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
It's kind of like going into a pizza place and trying to order a slice of pizza with vegetables and meat. The employees figured out a long time ago that vegetarians won't eat the meat slices, and meatatarians won't eat the veggie pizzas, and everyone else(who doesn't have a philosophical objection)will make do. Well, I'm putting my foot down, I want meat and vegetables, and the meat better not be over done, and my vegetables better be cooked.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I'm putting my foot down, I want meat and vegetables, and the meat better not be r done, and my vegetables better be cooked.
Go to any number of quality custom builders in your country & get whatever you want. Mass market wants mass produced prices, so they get mass produced products that cater for the biggest possible demographic with the fewest options. That's why the kit player who wants a different size or an extra drum has to pay a premium on that item. If your needs are more specific, then expect to pay more, & rightly so. Choice is a cost element. Simple economics.
 

MrPockets

Gold Member
It's kind of like going into a pizza place and trying to order a slice of pizza with vegetables and meat. The employees figured out a long time ago that vegetarians won't eat the meat slices, and meatatarians won't eat the veggie pizzas, and everyone else(who doesn't have a philosophical objection)will make do. Well, I'm putting my foot down, I want meat and vegetables, and the meat better not be over done, and my vegetables better be cooked.
Let me introduce you to the supreme pizza.
 

harryconway

Platinum Member
Has anyone else felt this way about the marketing and sales in western hobbies, especially drums?
I don't let marketing dictate what I do. Just figure out the path you want to go ..... get the equipment needed ..... and have the journey.​
Soukast .... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlbHQjMhEUE&feature=related Guilherme Kastrup and Simone Sou. Plenty going on here, and here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddsbkoZN-Dk&feature=related Two percussionists.​
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Go to any number of quality custom builders in your country & get whatever you want. Mass market wants mass produced prices, so they get mass produced products that cater for the biggest possible demographic with the fewest options. That's why the kit player who wants a different size or an extra drum has to pay a premium on that item. If your needs are more specific, then expect to pay more, & rightly so. Choice is a cost element. Simple economics.
Sure, but can economics and marketing dictate what sounds good? Sure, they might be able to cut corner here and make buck and squeeze out the competition, but the bottom line is as a gigging drummer, having the same sound as everyone else will only get you basement parts from your buddies, whose rears you have to kiss.
 

MrPockets

Gold Member
Sure, but can economics and marketing dictate what sounds good? Sure, they might be able to cut corner here and make buck and squeeze out the competition, but the bottom line is as a gigging drummer, having the same sound as everyone else will only get you basement parts from your buddies, whose rears you have to kiss.
Human's (and maybe some monkeys) ears decide what sounds good. If a drum sells well, they are going to keep making versions or improve on it. A drum company's job is to create musical instruments that fit an adjective a drummer is looking for (warm, dark, bright, resonant, metallic, etc). You could also be DW and take every wood that is legally okay to use and do every possible ply configuration and have a drum for almost every sound a drummer is after.

Now it sounds like you are talking about entry level kits which are not what you want to gig unless you can't afford something better. Offering sets (even if they are lower quality) at a lower price point opens the door for more customers. Plus, a parent shouldn't buy their kid a professional level kit as the first one.

Having "your sound" is good as long as people want your sound. I don't know if Kirk Covington is getting many calls for his way of playing. It is also beneficial to sound like you could be anyone. It is better to have both sides of the coin. If you are playing covers in their original arrangement it would be nice to sound as close as possible to the original.

It honestly sounds like you had a really bad experience playing with someone and you totally lost it.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
Human's (and maybe some monkeys) ears decide what sounds good. If a drum sells well, they are going to keep making versions or improve on it. You could also be DW and take every wood that is legally okay to use and do every possible ply configuration.

Now it sounds like you are talking about entry level kits which are not what you want to gig unless you can't afford something better. Offering sets (even if they are lower quality) at a lower price point opens the door for more customers. Plus, a parent shouldn't buy their kid a professional level kit as the first one.

Having "your sound" is good as long as people want your sound. I don't know if Kirk Covington is getting many calls for his way of playing. It is also beneficial to sound like you could be anyone. It is better to have both sides of the coin. If you are playing covers in their original arrangement it would be nice to sound as close as possible to the original.

It honestly sounds like you had a really bad experience playing with someone and you totally lost it.
So what you are saying is pretty much every show, is going have pretty much the same sound because that one gigging drummer is playing in every band, sigh boring, gee I wish there was more aux.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Sure, but can economics and marketing dictate what sounds good? Sure, they might be able to cut corner here and make buck and squeeze out the competition, but the bottom line is as a gigging drummer, having the same sound as everyone else will only get you basement parts from your buddies, whose rears you have to kiss.
I think I might have some empathy with your view on generic sounds applied to drum kit design, but I must be honest - I have absolutely no idea where you're coming from with this reply.
 

MrPockets

Gold Member
So what you are saying is pretty much every show, is going have pretty much the same sound because that one gigging drummer is playing in every band, sigh boring, gee I wish there was more aux.
There are a plenty of genres of music that require more than one percussionist, and we already pointed out several bands who add aux to their live performance:
The Roots
Eninem
Snarky Puppy
Godsmack
RHCP
No Doubt
Foo Fighters
Steve Miller Band (Before Buffalo died)
Dave Matthews Band
Modest Mouse
Any Latin artist
Owl City (vibraphone)
Police (I count them because Stewart had this multi-percussion set up away from the kit he played)
Any band with a second line
Plus the over dubbing, and prerecorded tracks that are played electronically. I bet various rap and hip hop artists still use more than one drummer. I would say even some older funk have aux percussionists on record at least.

If this is really bothering you, you have a few options:
Start/join a band that has more than one percussionist
Don't listen to music you do not like
Do not buy their product
Write a letter to record labels explaining your feelings and see how they respond

It's like Beta-max and VCR, no one used Beta-max even though it was better quality. VCR won because everyone was using it (for porn).

Replace VCR with drum set only, Beta-max with multi-percussion groups, and porn for listening. Listeners are going to gravitate towards bands with 6 guitarists (like Iron Maiden) before they will listen to bands were there are a number of percussionists.
 
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poika

Silver Member
You take a "basic" drum set and with the bass drum, the toms, the snare and some cymbals you have pretty much the whole frequency range covered.

There's a reason the drum set evolved into what it is today.
Other than the drumset being REALLY FUN TO PLAY set up like that, those components just sound great together!


The bass on the 1 and the snare on the 2 is really the foundation of modern western music.
No better way to play that beat than with a drum set
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
So what you are saying is pretty much every show, is going have pretty much the same sound because that one gigging drummer is playing in every band, sigh boring, gee I wish there was more aux.
You've really gotta get out of that basement mate. Listen to some tunes. Broaden your horizons.

I can think of a ton of drummers who don't sound like one another. Despite the so called limitations of playing a generic drum kit.

Hell, what are your thoughts on an electric guitar? They pretty much all look identical. Are your ears as closed to the infinite ways that a creative person can express themselves on that instrument as well?

This is about you, not the instrument.......and certainly not about the way in which the instrument is marketed.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
You've really gotta get out of that basement mate. Listen to some tunes. Broaden your horizons.

I can think of a ton of drummers who don't sound like one another. Despite the so called limitations of playing a generic drum kit.

Hell, what are your thoughts on an electric guitar? They pretty much all look identical. Are your ears as closed to the infinite ways that a creative person can express themselves on that instrument as well?

This is about you, not the instrument.......and certainly not about the way in which the instrument is marketed.
Don't get me started on the electric guitar, all I hear is the limiting and compression in the amp, and yep all the amp sound is pretty much the same expression of a guitarists need to be heard, the louder they play, the less I hear their expression, and the more I hear their amp tone.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Don't get me started on the electric guitar, all I hear is the limiting and compression in the amp, and yep all the amp sound is pretty much the same expression of a guitarists need to be heard, the louder they play, the less I hear their expression, and the more I hear their amp tone.
Then I say again, this is about you not the instrument......or the marketing. That much is obvious.

So do something about it. Why not get on the front foot and get an act together.....combing the various percussive elements of your choosing. Lead by example. Show the world exactly the kind of expression and creativity you're talking about here. Then gather together musicians who fit your vision and see what you can come up with?

To my way of thinking that's the fastest way out of your basement........and who knows, you may even start a new trend in the process. The ability to show kit players just how limited they've been for 100 odd years and then swaying their opinions enough to get on board with this new percussive direction is a sure fire way of firing up drum manufacturers. If it's successful and it sells, they'll follow......bet your bottom dollar on it. Who knows, you may even be able to become part of the marketing process yourself.....and do it the right way from the outset, hey?
 

Dodeska

Senior Member
Don't get me started on the electric guitar, all I hear is the limiting and compression in the amp, and yep all the amp sound is pretty much the same expression of a guitarists need to be heard, the louder they play, the less I hear their expression, and the more I hear their amp tone.
You think all drums sound the same, & now you're saying all electric guitars sound the same?
Seriously?
I think either there's something wrong with your hearing or you're just making ridiculous statements for the sake of an argument.
 

SmoothOperator

Gold Member
So what you're saying is that this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mPlAr0Y62o (two guitars, by the way).

Sounds like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfwy0BRBc5g

That's not only the same basic set of instruments. It's the same band. The second example does only have 'one' guitar (multi-tracked to some extent but not excessively) but the instruments sound utterly different.
I think there is something like "suspense of disbelief" that goes on where many people can listen to the guitar, and say sure it's got all kind of band pass and compression issues, and the speaker can't reproduce the chords without distortion, and say hey there is a melody there. I can't get passed it, even steel string acoustics body tone is annoying, it just sounds like a big Helmholtz resonator which fundamentally amplifies one tone. I heard a baroque nylon string duet a few weeks ago, I respect that instrument even when they stop and buff their finger nails after someone coughs.
 

porter

Platinum Member
I think there is something like "suspense of disbelief" that goes on where many people can listen to the guitar, and say sure it's got all kind of band pass and compression issues, and the speaker can't reproduce the chords without distortion, and say hey there is a melody there. I can't get passed it, even steel string acoustics body tone is annoying, it just sounds like a big Helmholtz resonator which fundamentally amplifies one tone. I heard a baroque nylon string duet a few weeks ago, I respect that instrument even when they stop and buff their finger nails after someone coughs.
Are you joking? The melodies are clear as day. Most people hear the loudest notes of chords as the melody- often the highest note. There's no suspension* of disbelief there.

Like many others are saying, it seems like a personal issue is trying to be made into a large argument here. The problem, that argument is ridiculous.

Also, BFY: Good taste in examples there :)
 
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