Mapex Saturn - heads are a tight fit!

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sticks4drums

Guest
On the head tightness thing, I had the same issue with my son's Pearl Vision. No biggie, but that's on a budget kit.

I know little about the Saturn, but because your post intrigued me, I looked it up. I notice it has the "L" arm holders, so maybe reversing the arm to the down position may help. That said, from what I can see, the so called suspension mount looks like yet another cost saving "hang it off a few lugs on one side" type arrangement. Also, any clip I pulled up on youtube showed the kit to be a bit dead in standard form. Given that this is a thin shelled kit, I'm surprised they've not paid more attention to the mount. Providing a direct route from hoop to lugs to mount is a sure way of constructing a sustain sink. The importance of the hoop in offering sustain cannot be overlooked IMO. I genuinely believe that bolting a tom mount directly to the shell would be a better arrangement than the standard format.

Agree, throw a RIMS style mount on those tubs & let 'em sing out. Apart from the suspension mounts, & the battleship of a kick drum tom mounting tower, I'm really not getting the purpose of some form of suspension mount for the kick drum spurs. On a standard kick drum construction, why would you?
These are the posts I need to just smile and run away from. :) Now I am running.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Take one tom to a dealer and try different brands of heads on that drum and see if the heads are undersized/oversized.
 
N

nhzoso

Guest
I just checked my saturns the other day and my heads fit fine, in fact I can spin them after laying them in the drum. Maybe you just have a bad batch of heads?

I switched from evans g2's over stock ambassadors to Pinstripes over stock ambassadors and it sounds much much better IMO..more lively.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
Well, ol' Walt had the money to convert the swampland in the first place. I don't think anybody would do the same thing today....
He bought the land cheap under about 17 names so know one would figure he knew something they didn't. But that's a different thread
To avoid a burst of land speculation, Disney used various dummy corporations to acquire 27,443 acres (11,106 ha) of land.[2] Some of these names are memorialized on a window above Main Street, U.S.A. in the Magic Kingdom.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
I just spent the last four hours in the studio, with the Saturns. The engineer LOVED 'em! I threw some well broken-in Vintage Emperors on the toms and a ported coated Amb. reso on the kick. The rest was stock. He told me it was the best kick he's ever heard...and he was geekin' out on how well the toms tracked. Sweet! He didn't like my ringy Black Beauty...but that's just too bad. ;)

The batters I put on the toms were equally as tight fitting...but they tuned up and sounded great.

I'm going to post a video here soon, showing the difference in sound between mounting the tom on a post and just hitting it while holding it up by the hoop. It literally cuts the note in half...it's that dramatic.
 

scarlit

Silver Member
Yep Saturn kicks are cannons. My buddy has a 24x20 Saturn kick, its a monster. I would have bought it with my kit, but it wont fit in my car. I really love the snare too, have a vintage A remo on the batter right now and the thing absolutely rips!
 

timmdrum

Silver Member
I notice it has the "L" arm holders, so maybe reversing the arm to the down position may help.
I just replied to a different thread claiming the same thing. I've never heard this make a difference, and I've actually tried it. (Slow moments when working in instrument retail!)

That said, from what I can see, the so called suspension mount looks like yet another cost saving "hang it off a few lugs on one side" type arrangement. Also, any clip I pulled up on youtube showed the kit to be a bit dead in standard form. Given that this is a thin shelled kit, I'm surprised they've not paid more attention to the mount. Providing a direct route from hoop to lugs to mount is a sure way of constructing a sustain sink. The importance of the hoop in offering sustain cannot be overlooked IMO. I genuinely believe that bolting a tom mount directly to the shell would be a better arrangement than the standard format.

Agree, throw a RIMS style mount on those tubs & let 'em sing out. Apart from the suspension mounts, & the battleship of a kick drum tom mounting tower, I'm really not getting the purpose of some form of suspension mount for the kick drum spurs. On a standard kick drum construction, why would you?
My Pro-M kit has the same mounts on the toms, and they sing like crazy. Can't say if the BD mount affects it, since I use a rack. Try just tuning your reso head higher than the batter. My Tama StageStar toms sing too, and those have the mounting brackets right on the shell, old-school.
 

james05

Junior Member
Is it the edges? The fact that the shells aren't undersized, like some manufacturers like to make them?

I picked up a Saturn kit after selling off a bunch of my extra gear, last week. It's fantastic looking, made extremely well, and seems to sound good. I have to wonder though - am I getting the full potential from the drums? I'm using the stock Remo heads and on all four toms, the heads pretty much have to be stretched over the edges and cranked down, to seat properly. I measured the drums - they're all round (within 1/8") and they DO seem to tune up alright - though I don't think I've found the "sweet spot" on them, just yet. The hoops all appear to be fine. They just seem to be a tight fit! The kick drum was the easiest to tune and the heads actually seated just fine on it.

Has anyone else noticed this? I have some Evans heads laying around and I've noticed that they're a bit wider at the collar than Remo heads. I prefer remo but maybe I'll give the Evans a go on them.

I A/B'd them next to my Renown kit in the same sizes, with the same heads. I thought the Renown drums sounded really nice - until put next to these Saturns. So, I guess the tight fit of the heads isn't an issue!? It still makes me a little uneasy.
I have a Meridian kit, and Remo heads dont fit my 12" & 16" toms. Like you, I measured and checked bearing edges.... fine. Tried Evans and they fit.
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
I think a big part of the problem is that all the different drum manufacturers use different cuts on their bearing edges. The head companies, all have the same starting point for the end of the curve to the flat part of the head for their drum heads. Mapex drums are cut almost right at the beginning of the outside of the shell at a very sharp 45 degree edge. Some companies just seem to fit there shells better. Once the drums are tuned, I don't think it really matters any more. Mapex actually makes the off shore Remo heads that come stock on their kits, so they should know if they will work on their drums. Hey, they sound great to me. :)
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
On the head tightness thing, I had the same issue with my son's Pearl Vision. No biggie, but that's on a budget kit.

I know little about the Saturn, but because your post intrigued me, I looked it up. I notice it has the "L" arm holders, so maybe reversing the arm to the down position may help. That said, from what I can see, the so called suspension mount looks like yet another cost saving "hang it off a few lugs on one side" type arrangement. Also, any clip I pulled up on youtube showed the kit to be a bit dead in standard form. Given that this is a thin shelled kit, I'm surprised they've not paid more attention to the mount. Providing a direct route from hoop to lugs to mount is a sure way of constructing a sustain sink. The importance of the hoop in offering sustain cannot be overlooked IMO. I genuinely believe that bolting a tom mount directly to the shell would be a better arrangement than the standard format.

Agree, throw a RIMS style mount on those tubs & let 'em sing out. Apart from the suspension mounts, & the battleship of a kick drum tom mounting tower, I'm really not getting the purpose of some form of suspension mount for the kick drum spurs. On a standard kick drum construction, why would you?
Upside down, really? You may be onto something. Hanging the tom at the very end of the post allows it to sustain the most. Hanging it further down toward the base cuts the sustain even further. Sounds weird, I know...but it's the truth. Here's a little demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNwbWbmwFY0

...bad audio, due to it being recorded from my phone. It should still be noticeable.

I think their mounting hardware is a work-in-progress. I noticed the new Black Panther drums have the new style mount, taken from the Meridian series. You're right, the Saturn tom mounts seem to transfer a lot of the shell vibration to the hardware. I'm thinking that a thicker layer of rubber under the mount might help. I already removed that giant gun turret looking piece of metal from the bass drum. I do love that they have kept from bolting all of that hardware to the drums - it only seems detrimental to the sound of the small toms. The big downside of their system is; I can't fit these things into my standard-sized drum bags. :(

I really love the snare too, have a vintage A remo on the batter right now and the thing absolutely rips!
I like the snare, too. It's not powerful enough for my rock band but it might be perfect for the funk group I just put together. I love the hardware and the quality of the drum...definitely top-shelf, all the way.

I have a Meridian kit, and Remo heads dont fit my 12" & 16" toms. Like you, I measured and checked bearing edges.... fine. Tried Evans and they fit.
I figured they would. I think I'll try Evans all-around, next. Thanks for confirming this!

I think a big part of the problem is that all the different drum manufacturers use different cuts on their bearing edges. The head companies, all have the same starting point for the end of the curve to the flat part of the head for their drum heads. Mapex drums are cut almost right at the beginning of the outside of the shell at a very sharp 45 degree edge. Some companies just seem to fit there shells better. Once the drums are tuned, I don't think it really matters any more. Mapex actually makes the off shore Remo heads that come stock on their kits, so they should know if they will work on their drums. Hey, they sound great to me. :)
I'm not saying they don't sound good...they really do! In fact, they're better than some of the mega-expensive drums out there, at a fraction of the price. The quality is outstanding. I would just feel better if Remo (my preferred heads) would sit right down flat on the edges. They tune up and sound great, so I'm happy.
 
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Andy

Administrator
Staff member
Upside down, really? You may be onto something. Hanging the tom at the very end of the post allows it to sustain the most. Hanging it further down toward the base cuts the sustain even further. Sounds weird, I know...but it's the truth. Here's a little demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNwbWbmwFY0

...bad audio, due to it being recorded from my phone. It should still be noticeable.

I think they're mounting hardware is a work-in-progress. I noticed the new Black Panther drums have the new style mount, taken from the Meridian series. You're right, the Saturn tom mounts seem to transfer a lot of the shell vibration to the hardware. I'm thinking that a thicker layer of rubber under the mount might help. I already removed that giant gun turret looking piece of metal from the bass drum. I do love that they have kept from bolting all of that hardware to the drums - it only seems detrimental to the sound of the small toms. The big downside of their system is; I can't fit these things into my standard-sized drum bags. :(
Yeah, getting the difference from the video. There's an increase in the sustain of the fundamental tone plus some higher overtone & rolloff coming out. The "L" rod down thing is from Bob Gatzen, nothing to do with me, but it makes sense if you work out the difference in weight loading hence sustain sink. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrFMPd8HNmQ
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
The stock UT's fit fine. But the "regular" Ambassadors and Emperors wont
When you say UT's, do you mean the UT's that come on the Meridian's. The Saturn's and Orion's come with full blown Emperors over Ambassador's. They just have the Mapex logo on them. I have 14 of them, and they all fit fine.
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
I have all mine at the top of all my L-rods and they sustain like crazy. All stock heads. Have a listen if you haven't already. This was done with a regular definition flip phone. Sound great to me. :)
http://www.sticks4drums.com/apps/videos/videos/show/12935991-fooling-around-on-the-monster
That's it Zambizzi, you need a riser made from 30 ton of boulders, lol!

They sound fine to me, but difficult to really work out how they sound with a flip phone & fast playing.
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
That's it Zambizzi, you need a riser made from 30 ton of boulders, lol!

They sound fine to me, but difficult to really work out how they sound with a flip phone & fast playing.
No you can't have my riser. :) My point was that if they sound really good on a flip phone, you can imagine how good they sound in real life or with good mics. When my Sennheisers come in I am going to do a nice sound video of the drums and the cymbals, just for reference for my site and anyone else that is interested. I don't know what else I can say. Honestly, they sound great. I passed on Tama, babinga, and DW for them. You can't beat the walnut interiors in my not so humble opinion.
 
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