Lug splay video

All of my drums seem to have straight lugs, and I haven't had tuning issues with them.

I'm going on a bit of a tanget here, but I've never really thought about lug splay until looking into comparisons between Supraphonics from various eras. The early ones had larger shells which allowed the lugs to be straight. At some point the shell diameter became slightly smaller while the Imperial lugs stayed the same, which resulted in a bit of lug splay. This apprarently wasn't taken well by the "Supra community", and after another design iteration some rubber gaskets were added between the shell and the lugs. This made the lugs straight again... but supposedly robbed some of the shell resonance. So, can anyone with a modern Supra chime in and tell whether theirs sounds choked and won't keep in tune? ;)
 
Overall, I've never been concerned about whether a drum has lug splay or not. I'm not sure if splay was always intentional with drums to help keep them in tune. Who knows. Maybe it was.
 
if lug splay is the new "wear your pants on backwards" I'm going to hold off

but seriously I didn't listen to his reasons
what are his reasons.
oh, holding tension. Well have to have that problem to begin with -I don't- US Gretsch hold tension without loosening for 4-5 decades minimum 100 years
but for other brands hey wear that hat backwards
 
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Great video and some confirmation bias for me… there’s a drum builder here in Portland, Jeff Kirsch, who is big on removing the gaskets behind lugs. He says they hurt resonance and they cause the lug to rock which affects tuning and dig into the shell. He has photos on his instagram showing the damage gaskets cause over time. Be that what it may, when he removes the gaskets it can cause splay due to the lug being closer to the shell. He said it’s a non-issue, but I didn’t know why until this video. I have a kit that he cut down, leveled and removed the gaskets which caused splay. All to say thanks for this video! Now I understand why it doesn’t matter and might be a good thing.

Jeff is also a proponent of buying a kit for the size, look and hardware, and then having a good builder/tech level it and do the edges. The leveling and edge work he equates with buying a new guitar. No one buys a (mass production) guitar and expects it to be set up out if the box. They all need to see the luthier before they’re really ready to play.
 
My drums don't have lug splay and they don't lose tension. I've never had a tension rod fall out... actually, I've never seen one fall out of any drums I've ever played going back to 1973.

I personally am not a fan of how lug splay looks. I'm not buying the guy's logic, but that's just my opinion. I know that there was some discussion here on DW maybe 15 years ago and what I recall is guys don't care for lug splay. It would be interesting to hear from some drum builders such as @Andy, who used to make the Guru drums.

Why the swivel nut was defeloped: "In 1923, George Way, working for Leedy, developed a swivel-nut lug design, which made tensioning easier." SEE: https://drummagazine.com/history-of-the-snare-drum-2/

The tube lugs, with NO swivel nuts, were prone to cross-threading and the invention of the swivel nut greatly reduced that from occurring.
 
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Well if the lug has a swivel I can see splay be no issue but if not seems the angle would be binding and cause problems. Seems like without a swivel it would wear parts out and binding issues. Would it affect play - I doubt it. Thsts my guess
 
I understand his logic but I don't agree with it. Any tension placed on the tension rod and swivel nut will create enough friction between the threads to essentially nullify any additional friction cause by splay.

I have had drums both with and without splay that have held tuning, and others that dropped tension rods out. Generally speaking the worst have been low-tuned toms and DW True Pitch rods on bottom snare side directly below where my rimshots land.

If you really have an issue with tension rods backing out, a tube of blue Loctite is like five dollars.
 
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Playing since 1970 and the only lug screw that I can remember falling out, was in a recording studio using their Tama Rosewood snare around 1983. Boy would I like to have that snare now. I still have it's sound in the recording though. I'm not real concerned about splay unless it's a lot. I've got 4 snares 70s Supra, 88 Yamaha, 90s Rocker and 2023 BB none look like there's any splay.
 
BREAKING NEWS: The Bug is Now a Feature!

I appreciate the conversation and love seeing this stuff addressed. That said, Todd needs to back up his extreme claims (I say extreme because he also talks smack about anyone who disagrees, essentially stating that his way is the only "right" way - this is usually an excellent warning sign to make sure you do some additional research...) with some real demonstrations.

While what he's saying seems possible, but I've got a bunch of drums that don't have lug splay and they maintain tuning, tune easily, and sound great. If the issues he's describing aren't present in multiple instances where, by his claims, they sound, we've either got a blindspot that isn't being addressed or he's spouting anecdotal experience as scientific fact.

My experience with lug splay has been largely negative because of point that he glossed over- swivel inserts in the lugs. Not all lugs have these and even the ones that do don't have the same degree of swivel. This can make or break the functionality of the lug and tension rod. I've seen this on high end kits that I've had to tech and this embarrassing. If you've never experienced these issues, it's common for lugs with limited range or no swivel at all to exhibit threading issues because of misalignment. Part of me wonders if minimal misalignment (even with a swivel insert) is creating more resistance for Todd and solving issues he's experienced with tension rods coming loose. He seems to casually reference this at one point.

BTW - I generally believe that builders should welcome this sort of criticism and questioning, as it provides them with an opportunity to really demonstrate their claims. When/if the builder gets all flustered and angry that they're being questioned and doesn't make an attempt to back up their claims, that speaks volumes.
 
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Applying a forced angle relative to the threads will cause them to bind. This can be viewed as “keeping them from loosening”, but it also means difficulty with tuning, and almost certainly means damage to the threads. Whether that damage shows up in the short or long term depends on the severity of the angle and the quality of the metal and plating.
 
Wavelength said:
All of my drums seem to have straight lugs, and I haven't had tuning issues with them.

I'm going on a bit of a tanget here, but I've never really thought about lug splay until looking into comparisons between Supraphonics from various eras. The early ones had larger shells which allowed the lugs to be straight. At some point the shell diameter became slightly smaller while the Imperial lugs stayed the same, which resulted in a bit of lug splay. This apprarently wasn't taken well by the "Supra community", and after another design iteration some rubber gaskets were added between the shell and the lugs. This made the lugs straight again... but supposedly robbed some of the shell resonance. So, can anyone with a modern Supra chime in and tell whether theirs sounds choked and won't keep in tune? ;)
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I have a hammered bronze 1991 Ludwig 6.5x14.
No splay. No gaskets. Shell was hammered in Elkhart, Indiana. It's actually a bit oversized. The undersized shell idea is what you're looking for. But the lugs have to match the hoops and rods. I personally hate gaskets and lug splay. They should have changed the lugs years ago. I used to play 15 shows a month, 3.5 hours per show with a very loud Blues Rock power trio. About 800 shows in total with that band. Plus I played hard rock, metal, jazz, funk, punk, orchestral, reggae, latin, fusion, polka and country rock on that same snare for 14 years exclusively. Never used another snare until I started building drums 25 years ago. Gaskets on a thin metal drum probably don't rob too much resonance, enough to bug some people and gaskets just look goofy.

Ludwig claimed what the dude in the Barton video is claiming. It creates a tune lock situation. Yes it does but it also causes binding and stripping of rods and swivel nuts. Why do you think Ludwig tried to correct splay with gaskets. I've been playing drums fo 50 years now and yet to have a tension rod fall on the floor from loosening. I'm talking many brands of drums and very hard hitting. No splay or gaskets on Hovland drums. Ever. No tension rods falling out either. Cheap 2.3 mm hoops made in Taiwan are even more oversized than vintage American 2.3 pressed steel hoops.
I guess I'm the guy in the weird voice saying look at that splay it's horrible. I know I'm not the only one.
 

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bongoman said:
Applying a forced angle relative to the threads will cause them to bind. This can be viewed as “keeping them from loosening”, but it also means difficulty with tuning, and almost certainly means damage to the threads. Whether that damage shows up in the short or long term depends on the severity of the angle and the quality of the metal and plating.
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It just occurred to me that a swivel nut would negate any significant horizontal pressure by aligning itself vertically to the rod. That’s why they used a swivel nut. In that regard, the idea of splay helping the drum stay in tune, as stated in the video, is not real. It might help on non-swivel lugs, but that’s not what he’s talking about.
 
Tamboreter said:
My drums don't have lug splay and they don't lose tension. I've never had a tension rod fall out... actually, I've never seen one fall out of any drums I've ever played going back to 1973.

I personally am not a fan of how lug splay looks. I'm not buying the guy's logic, but that's just my opinion. I know that there was some discussion here on DW maybe 15 years ago and what I recall is guys don't care for lug splay. It would be interesting to hear from some drum builders such as @Andy, who used to make the Guru drums.

Why the swivel nut was defeloped: "In 1923, George Way, working for Leedy, developed a swivel-nut lug design, which made tensioning easier." SEE: https://drummagazine.com/history-of-the-snare-drum-2/

The tube lugs, with NO swivel nuts, were prone to cross-threading and the invention of the swivel nut greatly reduced that from occurring.
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Exactly.
 
I'm not a lug-splay Nazi. I don't like it, but it doesn't make me flip my lid. That said, I believe the assertion in the video is nonsense.
 
kdh said:
I've been playing drums fo 50 years now and yet to have a tension rod fall on the floor from loosening. I'm talking many brands of drums and very hard hitting.
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You know, I haven't either. I've had them detune back when I was a heavy hitter, but these days, temperature and humidity play a much bigger part in my drums detuning than anything else.
 
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