Ludwig's new Signet 105 drum line!

tclem

Member
I just set mine up today and I couldn't be happier with them! Now for the issue at hand: the lugs. Structurally these things are sound. I have not tried to take them apart but from what I can see it does look like the plastic part is there to keep the lug sleeve from slipping out. Not sure, that's just how it looked from up close on the outside. But they are a lot more solid feeling than I had expected.

Here is the deal, if you have an instrument that you gig with and use a lot, it's going to get scuffed. Accidents happen. It doesn't matter what your gear is made out of or how careful you are, it will wear down (although some materials quicker than others).

But let me speak about these lugs as someone for whom the 799.99 I paid for them was a major investment. This is my only set of drums. I have been playing for 18 years and finally have an awesome American made maple drum set (up until recently I have played mostly at places that have their own kits). I saw the plastic on the lugs and didn't think twice about it. Why? Because of the way that the drums were designed. They can be easily replaced. I'm sure that if the time comes when I think, "I can't live with these scuffed lugs any longer!" I will be able to buy replacement lugs. And honestly I bet they will be cheaper to replace than metal lugs (which will also get scuffed up by the way).

Bottom line, if ludwig has to throw plastic on their lugs to get me this kit for that price (even if I had to pay $1000), I am more than happy to put up with some scuffed plastic.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Okay, how about we re-address the lugs 5 years from now after I've used the drums for longer than 6 weeks. I'll continue to be completely up-front and unbiased about them, and will report on how they hold up.
They're out there, they'll be showing up used in the future, we'll all get to see how SIGNET105 weathers the gigging life. Yes, lets re assess the plastic part of the lugs after 5 years.





It doesn't bother me that you're criticizing a Ludwig product or concept, you're not the first. What does bother me is that you don't thimk I can fairly and accurately assess a product that's in my possession, and which I can actually handle and inspect (to the extent that I am able to disassemble it, ie; the lug.)
Im doing a lot of assuming and guessing, tho based on experience with plastic on lugs. I like the concept, stated that. Criticizing? More like pondering the un foreseen possibilities, which 'may' be ugly, but they also 'may' turn out to be true, since they haven't yet, guess it could be labeled criticizing, but Im OK with that too.

Im certainly not questioning your assessment capabilities, we're eating it up. In post #263 I understood it as you 'could not' get the lug apart, so it must be difficult, a testament to LUDWIG, not a diss on you. I myself was never under the impression that the plastic part of the lug would be easy to get out/apart. Would like to see it out/apart tho, or even a pic of the inside of the lug.




But let me speak about these lugs as someone for whom the 799.99 I paid for them was a major investment. This is my only set of drums. I have been playing for 18 years and finally have an awesome American made maple drum set (up until recently I have played mostly at places that have their own kits). I saw the plastic on the lugs and didn't think twice about it. Why? Because of the way that the drums were designed.
Exactly what LUDWIG is hoping for... not someone like me who sees them and says: "Plastic on the lugs? Not what I was expecting. Gonna wait on this one, see how they age."
 
I couldn't wait any longer! I went down to my local GC and ordered a new kit. I did see these at NAMM. I also beat on a set up kit at GC a few weeks ago. So, for me no surprises coming.
I don't think the spur issue will be an issue for me. Nor is the lug issue but I will post my findings regardless if something becomes an issue.

While I'm not a "pro" or a schooled drummer I do get to play often. I've also have had my share of kits up and down the pricing ladder. Sold a bunch, some for being stupid me, some for details I didn't like and some just because I wanted a different flavor....lol.

My use for this kit is simply for a light compact traveling kit. The kick drum (20") is crazy light! Perfect for tossing in the back of wifeys CRV traveling up and down the I5. We do allot of flying but If we don't fly I'm always bringing a small set.

Anywhoo, ordered a 20x15, 12" rack and 14" floor in the Teak finish. 5 days and counting!
 

singing drums

Senior Member
If the plastic is good, then it's overall qualities are likely to be at least as good as the pot metal that most mass market lugs are made from, & certainly as good as the often flimsy components used inside most major company cast lugs.

...i would assume "pot metal" means metal cast from inferior (sonically speaking) alloys that are cheaper than, say, premium alloys that have superior sonic properties?

...also, would you have a view on the use (again, from a sonic perspective) of aluminum or brass?...some manufacturers have claimed superior sonic properties from the use of these metals on rims, lugs and other hardware parts...

...many thanks for your thoughts...
 

Andy

Administrator
Staff member
...i would assume "pot metal" means metal cast from inferior (sonically speaking) alloys that are cheaper than, say, premium alloys that have superior sonic properties?

...also, would you have a view on the use (again, from a sonic perspective) of aluminum or brass?...some manufacturers have claimed superior sonic properties from the use of these metals on rims, lugs and other hardware parts...

...many thanks for your thoughts...
Almost every cast lug body out there is cast from pot metal. I wouldn't say "sonically inferior", more sonically & structurally inconsistent. They are what they are.

As for claims from manufacturers re: the sonic benefits of solid lug forms in brass & aluminium, there's some small validity to that in terms of consistency, but mostly, the sonic performance of a lug is down to mass, footprint, & how/if it stresses the shell. The sonic difference also depends very much on the shell it's attached to.

As for the Signet lugs, I kind of like them. Mass is a bit lower than typical cast body lugs. I certainly applaud the design in terms of how they attach to the shell, & I like the aesthetic too.
 

singing drums

Senior Member
Almost every cast lug body out there is cast from pot metal. I wouldn't say "sonically inferior", more sonically & structurally inconsistent. They are what they are.

As for claims from manufacturers re: the sonic benefits of solid lug forms in brass & aluminium, there's some small validity to that in terms of consistency, but mostly, the sonic performance of a lug is down to mass, footprint, & how/if it stresses the shell. The sonic difference also depends very much on the shell it's attached to.

As for the Signet lugs, I kind of like them. Mass is a bit lower than typical cast body lugs. I certainly applaud the design in terms of how they attach to the shell, & I like the aesthetic too.
...thank you for your insight/sharing your vast experience with the wider drumming community...
 
I picked my kit up yesterday. All boxed up! LOL! I wanted the natural teak, came from GC shipping dist. Center, had it in about 4 days.

Anywhoo, I took a few pics of the lugs and to the best of my abilities I tried to examine the lug and use of the plastic part of the lug. In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.
 

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bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.
Thanks for backing me up on that, nobody believed me when I said it! Hopefully you can convince those who say nay.

Bermuda
 

wildbill

Platinum Member
Thanks for backing me up on that, nobody believed me when I said it! Hopefully you can convince those who say nay.

Bermuda

I believed you.

All the drums I've had, have some kind of plastic/rubber piece used to keep the barrel nut in place.

The only difference is that they're usually on the inside of the lug, where you can't see them, unless you take the lugs off. These ones on the outside of the Signet lugs must be really firmly fixed into place, as a permanent solution.
 
I believed you.

All the drums I've had, have some kind of plastic/rubber piece used to keep the barrel nut in place.

The only difference is that they're usually on the inside of the lug, where you can't see them, unless you take the lugs off. These ones on the outside of the Signet lugs must be really firmly fixed into place, as a permanent solution.

It's in tight! There is a lip or ridge that locks the plastic piece into the lug. It could be forced out with a small blade screw driver but could possibly get damaged. Best guess....it would pop out with a little pressure and lock back in place. It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement.
 
Thanks for backing me up on that, nobody believed me when I said it! Hopefully you can convince those who say nay.

Bermuda

No worries!

The build quality of the lug and bass drum hoop claw are pretty nice. Machining and fit are clean. The finish of the chrome seams nice too.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
It's in tight! There is a lip or ridge that locks the plastic piece into the lug. It could be forced out with a small blade screw driver but could possibly get damaged. Best guess....it would pop out with a little pressure and lock back in place. It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement.
I did try a screwdriver to pry that lip, and it would take a lot of pressure to get it to move. Because I was holding the lug in my hand, I wasn't about to force it. Maybe held in a vise?
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
In my humble opinion, the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with the function of the lug mounting or tuning of the drum. It's sole purpose is to hold the barrel nut or threaded tube into the lug.

Even if the plastic part would fall off or get bumped off (which would be hard to do) it would not affect the lug at all.
So if the plastic part has absolutely nothing to do with function/tuning, and even if it fell out it would not effect the lug at all, how does that relate to " It appears its designed like this incase the barrel nut gets damaged and needing replacement."?

Without ever seeing the lug myself in person, I could tell you the plastic piece is integral to the design, LUGWIG wouldn't put it on for aesthetic purposes, my guess would be its a lug nut retainer. So, if it failed, or fell out it'd seem logical the lug nut and its performance would be effected.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Without ever seeing the lug myself in person, I could tell you the plastic piece is integral to the design, LUGWIG wouldn't put it on for aesthetic purposes, my guess would be its a lug nut retainer. So, if it failed, or fell out it'd seem logical the lug nut and its performance would be effected.
As for being integral to the design, yes, it's there to keep the lug nut in place when changing heads. But at all other times, the lug nut is secured by the tension rod. Even without the plastic insert, it is held in place and functions normally (until the rod is unscrewed.)

Judging by the difficulty in removing the plastic piece, it is highly unlikely it could fall out. But I will say again, even if it did fail in some manner, the rod and its receiver would be unaffected during use. No tuning issues, no nothing. It would probably look odd, but that would be the extent of any 'damage'. In that event, I would simply order a new, complete lug, or swap it to a less visible position, such as any of the four lugs on the underside of the kick.

To all the doubters... I've got these lugs in my hands! Please take my word for it when I describe them!!

Bermuda
 

bobdadruma

Platinum Member
Ok, the piece that you are talking about is a simple plastic plug that is installed in the lug to aesthetically conceal a hole.
What is so mysterious about it?
Many products have similar concealment plugs.
Your car probably has at least 12 of them. Look closely at your cars door panels and you will probably find a few by the armrest and the interior door latch release.
Some are round and some are square or rectangle in shape. They hide access to fasteners that are necessary to the function of the door.
 

Les Ismore

Platinum Member
Even without the plastic insert, it is held in place and functions normally (until the rod is unscrewed.)
Can you explain that please?

We're assuming the lug nut is of traditional design. By what's being said here we assume there could/should be a channel cast in the metal section which would hold the lug nut in place during tuning/tension, or is the plastic piece part of this function?

What we're getting is w/o the plastic piece the lug nut is held in place, but also hearing if there's no tension/rod and plastic piece not in place, the lug nut would fall out.
 

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