Ludwig Speed King Question

rootheart

Senior Member
The classic, oldschool Ludwid Speed King Pedal features a heel part, that can be flipped over.
What is it good for?
 
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harryconway

Platinum Member
On the underside of the footboard should be a nut which you lock the "heel part" solid with the rest of the footboard. Hence, you have a "longboard". Unlocked, and flipped 180 degrees will give you a 2 piece pedal......footboard and heel plate. Just for yucks...a Speedking with a floorplate. Heel plate locked into longboad position.
 

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jjmason777

Senior Member
grin..this is the answer I was looking for...But please explain how it works..please!
I play speed kings. If you unlock the heel plate, it is passive. You cannot get a heel stroke out of it. With it locked, however, you'll notice that the heel plate extends past the fulcrum. If you play heel down, you can actually pull the beater back from the head faster than the springs will go. That combined with the solid linkage, is what makes it a speed king! Of course, you can play any foot technique with it, but it is not as good as a longboard for heel toe. Bonham played them heel up.
 

rootheart

Senior Member
I stil try to figure it out...
it is not about to lock or unlock: it is about why to flip it over!!!:
once U flip it over, the edge of the heel part rests on top of the pedal, creating an extra raised point of impact action at the heel part of the pedal......simply tapping at this point with your fingers, does do a stroke, which U can as well do with your heel, somehow...
Using this, you can play extremely fast, such I was told by pro drummers, when I was a curious kid, many moons ago..now I want to find out, like "back to the roots".
Those days, Pro-Rockdrummers used to wear highheel Cowboyboots..
I found that I cannot play this raised point with my heel, cause it is exactly at the gap between my boot´s heel and my sole. But if I wear flat sneakers, I can play this point with the middle of my foot, then let my toes fall down and do the second stroke...so rather than "heel-toe" it is something like "middle of the foot-toe.."
Does this make any sense? I guess this topic does not make any sense at all.
As a kid I was told to flip the heel part over to play extremely fast double strokes, e.g. slide over the raised heelpart and such, but I never understood it..... Now, being older and less wiser, I want to find out what it is about, grin
 
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jjmason777

Senior Member
Damn. Never heard of that. I've only tried flipping it once, and it just seemed like it was in the way. But now, you've got me curious, so I'm gonna check it out. Give me a day or two to experiment with it and I'll get back to you. OK?
 

rootheart

Senior Member
Damn. Give me a day or two to experiment with it and I'll get back to you. OK?
OK. ..take Ur time.nothing to hurry or worry about..thanx indefinitely in advance for beeing interested and maybe helping me to "research" a bit ..somehow I have the feeling that the socalled heel-toe or the slide technique has its roots in flipping over the Ludwig Speed King heel part, but I´ m not sure
 
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Vipercussionist

Silver Member
I play speed kings. If you unlock the heel plate, it is passive. You cannot get a heel stroke out of it. With it locked, however, you'll notice that the heel plate extends past the fulcrum. If you play heel down, you can actually pull the beater back from the head faster than the springs will go. That combined with the solid linkage, is what makes it a speed king! Of course, you can play any foot technique with it, but it is not as good as a longboard for heel toe. Bonham played them heel up.
Although it's been a LONG time since I've used one, I play heel up too, so that flippable heel plate never had any benefit for me either. I actually sit too high to put my heel down in any useful manner for drumming anyway. For ME, "short boards" FTW!!
.
__________________
I'd rather simmer for life than be a flash in the pan.
-Bermuda
 

jjmason777

Senior Member
OK. ..take Ur time.nothing to hurry or worry about..thanx indefinitely in advance for beeing interested and maybe helping me to "research" a bit ..somehow I have the feeling that the socalled heel-toe or the slide technique has its roots in flipping over the Ludwig Speed King heel part, but I´ m not sure
Well rootheart, there is no possible way to get a heel stroke out of a speed king by flipping the heel plate. It was never designed to be flipped 180 degrees, but rather, you could just simply release it to create a passive 2 piece footboard.

The speed king was designed to be played heel down, with the heel plate "locked" in position. The idea was that you use the toes, or ball of the foot, to produce the stroke, then the heel was used to pull the foot board back up, so the spring tension would be able to be loose, making the pedal feel light and fast. It was designed to make fast doubles with the heel down style of playing. There is no advantage to a speed king for heel up players, and it's almost impossible to use it for heel toe technique because of the short foot board.

I use them for the compression springs, and solid linkage, and they feel very light. However, they are noisy, sloppy, and not well made, so I will be replacing them with a Trick double pedal when I get my Trick drum kit. I have Iron Cobras, and have used many other pedals in the past, but nothing feels as good or as fast to me as the speed kings other than the Tricks, so I will stick with them until then.

I hope this helps answer your question.
 

rootheart

Senior Member
I hope this helps answer your question.
It does not but thanx anyway
Maybe to use the heelpart flipped over is a forgotten art of drummer´s ancestors. Compared to the art/myth of removing the springs off the pedal, which does not really work with any contemporary pedal, but it works absolutely fine with the Speed King.
Reason for my post was: A friend of mine gave me an old Speed King, instead of throwing it into the trash can. I have some nostalgic feelings about it, and I guess the old masters could play that unbeliavable fast cause they used the Speed King, using it´s advantages and tricks, as those days there was no other pedal around, grin...
 
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bobdadruma

Platinum Member
I played a Speed King for almost thirty years and I tried the heel piece in all positions many times. I never got it!! I still play it on occasion. I leave the heel locked with the full ridge side up. It is the noisiest pedal that I have ever owned. It clicks! It squeaks! It is fast though! Heel up, or down! I still love it!
 

rootheart

Senior Member
It is the noisi It clicks! It squeaks! It is fast though! Heel up, or down! I still love it!
Speedking NOISE mythbusters:
well, playing with a band, your audience might have trouble to hear the bassdrum at all, (cause it is muffled)..they will never ever hear the "noice or the squeaking" of your pedal, unless your fellow musicians play softer than the volume of your pedal spring squeaking, which is IMO absolutely impossible..Also: your audience is always focused on your lead singer..so what about the squeaking of a pedal ? ..grin...No1 cares
Speed king noise myth sux

Remember those recordings of Led Zeppelin, where you can clearly hear the Speedking noise "breath"...this adds something to the groove, the "noise" is not a disadvantage, but an advantage, imagine you want to use it, you will never be able to use it, unless you use very sensible mics, and tell the soundguys that this is what you want

High5 for Ludwig Speed King!
grin
P.S:
Try to make a recording with your band, and make sure that on the MP3 you can hear the Speedking squeak...hell of a job, almost impossible, but it was done many moons ago.
 
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jjmason777

Senior Member
It's no myth that Speed Kings squeak. Every one I've ever had squeaked. I have two brand new ones, and they both squeak. You can clearly hear it on many Zep recordings, because they would often mic the batter side of Bonham's bass drum, as well as the reso side, so there was a mic right next to that squeaky pedal! I guess you could say it's part of the "charm" of the Speed King, but it is annoying to me.
 

rootheart

Senior Member
It's no myth that Speed Kings squeak. Every one I've ever had squeaked. I have two brand new ones, and they both squeak. You can clearly hear it on many Zep recordings, because they would often mic the batter side of Bonham's bass drum, as well as the reso side, so there was a mic right next to that squeaky pedal! I guess you could say it's part of the "charm" of the Speed King, but it is annoying to me.
It might be the charm and I love it, cause i like the instrument to breeze...Imagine a Jazz-Doublebassplayer playing and you do not hear all the side-noises like the strings flattering , snapping, or like his fingers move up and down and all that..this makes music...imagine this would not be able to hear...the double bass would sound dead, he could as well use an electronic bass guitarr...
As concerned the Speeed king: IMO it is impossible to hear any squeak, once you spray a little weapon oil on it. Like on any technical device, or even a kitchen door, there is no part on the pedal that can squeak unless it is oiled well....
I personally think that the myth LSP squeaks was braught up by contemporary competition pedal designers..
Listen to many recordings of of ol`Jazz masters, or even the Beatles or the Rolling Stones....They all used Speedking..You do not hear any squeak and you do not care about any squeak ..you just enjoy the music..
 
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rootheart

Senior Member
sorry this ol´ Speedking myth issue "speedking squeaks" drives me crazy..
Send me a recording of whatever you play with a band, and I want to hear the "annoying squaek of LSK"..please!!!!, grin
Maybe it would be an idea to propose this this to the TV Show "Mythbusters"..grin...
 

Vipercussionist

Silver Member
sorry this ol´ Speedking myth issue "speedking squeaks" drives me crazy..
Send me a recording of whatever you play with a band, and I want to hear the "annoying squaek of LSK"..please!!!!, grin
Maybe it would be an idea to propose this this to the TV Show "Mythbusters"..grin...
NOT a MYTH man!!

Just listen to Since I've Been Loving You by Led Zep, you'll hear it!!!

Listen CLOSE, it's there!!!! It's not REALLY noticeable unless you've heard it before and know where to listen. Probably the reason they didn't worry about it to begin with.

There's some right in the beginning 40 seconds or so where they're playing lightly.

Led Zeppelin- Since I've Been Loving You
 

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Migaluch

Senior Member
NOT a MYTH man!!

Just listen to Since I've Been Loving You by Led Zep, you'll hear it!!!

Listen CLOSE, it's there!!!! It's not REALLY noticeable unless you've heard it before and know where to listen. Probably the reason they didn't worry about it to begin with.

There's some right in the beginning 40 seconds or so where they're playing lightly.

Led Zeppelin- Since I've Been Loving You
w00t i heard it! you have to put it on high quality to hear it though. Pretty funny and findable, but i dont think it would ruin a song.

On the Speed Kings, was there every any way to remove the squeak by modifying the pedal?
 
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