Ludwig P86 snare throw-off question

steverok

Silver Member
Hey All,

The stock P85 on my new Black Beauty is rather fussy, and less smooth in its operation than even my 1988 Supra. I just received a new P86 throw-off, which I plan to install. I notice the lever is completely loose, i.e., it doesn't "catch" when I toggle it. Is it supposed to be this way ? I'm worried that, once installed, it will fall out of position, especially when I adjust the snares to be loose against the bottom head. Any experience or advice to allay my fears will be mucho appreciado.

Thanks,
Steve-O
 

zarrdoss

Gold Member
thats strange, I do know they seem to work totally different when there is no tension on them. you don't have to drill new holes to mount it or get an adapter?
 
A

audiotech

Guest
I have two Ludwig snare drums and one has the 86 Millennium throw-off and the other the 85. I agree on the feel and operation of the P85. It's not very smooth and the handle seems rather weak in it's construction.

Now your concerns with the P86, it should work fine for you once you get some tension established with your snare wires. Mine locks in the uptight position and hasn't fallen to the off position yet. It's definitely the tension that establishes it's "lock".

Dennis
 

Stixnergard2

Senior Member
The P86 Millenium hole pattern is identical to the P85. It's a WAY nicer throw and will work fine once you install it.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
The P-86.
Gets my vote for the worlds ugliest strainer lol. I can't believe they even bothered engraving it.

Lot's of people love em.. I lost a special little screw on my one BB and the strainer doesn't work right. As long as you didn't lose one of those little one of a kind, stupid, idiotic, who engineered this? screws, it should be fine.

Not a fan of the P-86
 

Stixnergard2

Senior Member
The P-86.
Gets my vote for the worlds ugliest strainer lol. I can't believe they even bothered engraving it.

Lot's of people love em.. I lost a special little screw on my one BB and the strainer doesn't work right. As long as you didn't lose one of those little one of a kind, stupid, idiotic, who engineered this? screws, it should be fine.

Not a fan of the P-86
I like the way the P86 functions and looks. The P85 was nice when the insert color was black. The new P85's that are all chrome look cheap.
 

Attachments

D

drumming sort of person

Guest
The P85 was nice when the insert color was black. The new P85's that are all chrome look cheap.
That "insert" you refer to was just a sticker. :)

The P86 is a great throw-off. Highly recommended.
 

zarrdoss

Gold Member
If you don't have to modify your snare then I don't see what harm it will do to throw the new one on there and see what happens. I have a P85 on my Black Magic and it has worked fine but none of my other snare strainers compare to my Trick strainer on my custom snare.
 

steverok

Silver Member
The P-86.
Gets my vote for the worlds ugliest strainer lol. I can't believe they even bothered engraving it.

Lot's of people love em.. I lost a special little screw on my one BB and the strainer doesn't work right. As long as you didn't lose one of those little one of a kind, stupid, idiotic, who engineered this? screws, it should be fine.

Not a fan of the P-86
larryace I don't see any special screw, maybe they changed it. My current P85 is rough to engage even with no snares attached, so this will definitely work smoother, given audiotech's assertion regarding the tension establishing said lock. And I like the way it looks, especially when it will, I presume, work awesome. Thanks for y'all's input !
 

Duck Tape

Platinum Member
I just noticed the tab/lever on my P86 shakes around too... I only noticed it by accident when I was playing some rim shots, the snare wires are tight but the part that you flip up/down wobbles and shakes around... it doesn't seem to make any noise with soft playing and when I rim shot I obviously can't hear it.

Is this normal?

I notice it has two tiny screws on either side of it... do these need to be tightened?
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
larryace I don't see any special screw, maybe they changed it. My current P85 is rough to engage even with no snares attached, so this will definitely work smoother, given audiotech's assertion regarding the tension establishing said lock. And I like the way it looks, especially when it will, I presume, work awesome. Thanks for y'all's input !
There's 2 of those screws, (on the P-86) they are what the tension lever pivots on. They have threads of a smaller diameter than than the main shaft, it's a special proprietary screw with a hex head. They are quite small. I would recommend putting a drop of Crazy Glue over the head so it can't back out.
 

JMa

Junior Member
How far apart do the holes need to be for a P86? I have an old drum, probably a Ludwig, maybe a knock off. It needs a thrown off and butt.
 

mandrew

Gold Member
I put a P-86 on my vintage acrolite like the one down on this thread. It is great! You need to install it correctly using the hardware supplied. You cannot use the screws from the P-85. the screws screw from the inside of the shell pointing out, and screw into the P-86 from the back, through the shell. It will snap into place just fine, but it needs to have pressure from the snares on it. It works great.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
How far apart do the holes need to be for a P86? I have an old drum, probably a Ludwig, maybe a knock off. It needs a thrown off and butt.
The P-86 will interchange with the P-85 or P-83 strainers.They all have the same hole pattern.If you have a Ludwig,unless some idiot removed the badge...you'll know it.Even if the badge says WFL..it's a Ludwig.

Steve B
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
I found a thread on another forum about this. Apparently Ludwig started using LocTite to solve this problem with the P86. Wish I could verify mine has this before I install.

http://www.drumforum.org/index.php?/topic/27907-ludwig-p86add-me-to-the-list-of-strainer-failures/
This thread was from 2010.
If the strainer is new, it'll have the Loc-tite on it.
The "old one's" would probably have been used up by now. The P-86's on my 2010-2011 snares are a bit "studier" than the older strainers in the lever area.

I haven't had any probs with any of mine (yet?), but I'll now check the little hex screws. I have some of the "old one's" because they were way before 2010.

One weird thing is, last year, I saw pics of a P-86 that CLEARLY showed KEY HEAD screws.
Here's a link to this too:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.musicianshut.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/1/5/153002.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.musicianshut.com/ludwig-p-86-snare-throwoff&usg=__0lksKTs0IPY7mhU9v8OjCqxutJk=&h=700&w=700&sz=55&hl=en&start=6&sig2=pt5yF3Jqz_X5TjxUIoOIMg&zoom=1&tbnid=q_gM3iZuNvq2sM:&tbnh=140&tbnw=140&ei=XrqOUPvDNuGyyAGeroHADQ&prev=/search?q=ludwig+p86+throw+off&hl=en&sa=X&gbv=2&tbm=isch&prmd=ivnsfd&itbs=1

I thought, "oh cool!", but, when Ludwig was asked about it by my guy at the shop (while I was standing there), they didn't know anything about it. Again, that was last year.

I sent this link to someone at Ludwig to see what's up.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Those chrome looking hex screws are used to mount it to the shell. The proprietary screws I have issues with are black, round headed, and allen keyed. In that pic, they are located to the left and right, near the top of the threaded rod. You can see the black rounded head. They are a critical screw for proper operation. They are the ones that need loctite. I lost mine and the snare never left my house, in fact I hardly even used that snare, so I would think that they wouldn't travel and gig well. Unless they are treated with loc tite. Other than that I don't really have a problem with the P-86, other than I think it's ugly, and the fact that it's hard to adjust the tension knob when the snares are engaged.
 

KarlCrafton

Platinum Member
Yeah, the Black screws were the issue for the loc-tite. I'm going to go over all of mine tonight, but the old ones don't seem to be overly loose/wobbly (I also know the screws on the right side of the pic are used to secure the throw to the drum hahahahaha!, and I know you are relived to know that I know hahahaha!)

Wow, lost one before you even took it out of the house...eesh, that blows.

The DRUM KEY HEAD screws I was talking about are on the spot you tighten for the cord, or, plastic strips for snare wires.

ALL the P-86's I have seen come into the shop still have the regular phillips head screws.
Now those dang things are tiny. I haven't had an issue with those, but IF they could be changed to key head screws, at least you could see them if one fell out when you change the wires or string.
I've never backed them out that much because the cord is small. With the plastic strip, you need to run it through that slotted area in the front plate--major PITA if you ask me, but people get scared of cord for some reason. All the cord I put on last year are still as good as they were when I put them on.

I wonder if any companies offer key head screws that would even fit.
 
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