Ludwig - P-33 butt too low on Black Beauty!

zambizzi

Platinum Member
So, about 2 mo. ago I sank some dough into a 14x6.5" brass-on-brass Black Beauty. It's the one with the black nickel plated brass shell, brass tube lugs, brass die-cast hoops, P-86 strainer, P-33 butt...the works.

It sounds beautiful...I love it. It's flawed in a pretty serious way, which doesn't surprise me at all with Ludwig.

For the first month I didn't play it much as I was still experimenting w/ other snares. Now that I've spent more time w/ it in the last month or so, I'm noticing a very serious issue. The butt is drilled far too low. I like to crank my resonant side fairly high and now that my reso head has had a month to stretch out...I can't go any further. The butt prevents me from tuning it up any higher and the head's hoop is now right up against the butt.

Big bummer!

I also have a Classic Maple snare in the same size, with the same hardware (but in chrome). The butt is placed *much* higher on the maple snare and would allow me to crank the reso head until it snaps, if I wanted to.

Has anyone else had this issue? Is this considered a flaw and would it be covered under the warranty? I plan on getting some pics of both snares side-by-side this weekend and sending it to Memphis Drum Shop, which is who sold me the BB.

If not...are there any repair options? Can anyone recommend a replacement butt that is brass plated and has the same measurements, so drilling wouldn't be necessary?
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Pics will definitely help. What snare-side head are you using?
Will post them tonight, if I get time. I would say the butt is 1/2" or more higher on the CM snare. There would never be any danger of the head pressing against it.

I started off w/ a hazy ambassador and after about 4 weeks, I couldn't use it on that snare anymore. I'm using an Evans 300 currently. It won't last much longer either and is less than 1/16" away from touching the butt. It might allow one more full turn, per lug, if I'm lucky.

This is becoming a very expensive snare to play, in addition to being an expensive one to purchase.
 

Steady Freddy

Pioneer Member
Vinnie,

I think you need to run low collar heads on that drum. Remo makes some. The Aquarian snare side should also work.

HTH
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Vinnie,

I think you need to run low collar heads on that drum. Remo makes some. The Aquarian snare side should also work.

HTH
You're probably right, Freddy. They probably don't consider other manuf's heads since Ludwig Weathermasters have a very low profile. I can't stand their heads or I'd just use those.

I don't care for Aquarian but I'll look around for the Remo heads you mentioned. I'm really enjoying Evans and would prefer to keep using those, however.

However, this wouldn't solve the issue for me. I shouldn't have to buy special heads to conform to a flaw on my snare drum. I wouldn't really be happy with a work-around.
 

Mendozart

Platinum Member
Vinnie,

I think you need to run low collar heads on that drum. Remo makes some. The Aquarian snare side should also work.

HTH
You're probably right, Freddy. They probably don't consider other manuf's heads since Ludwig Weathermasters have a very low profile. I can't stand their heads or I'd just use those.

I don't care for Aquarian but I'll look around for the Remo heads you mentioned. I'm really enjoying Evans and would prefer to keep using those, however.

However, this wouldn't solve the issue for me. I shouldn't have to buy special heads to conform to a flaw on my snare drum. I wouldn't really be happy with a work-around.
Yeah, I think Fred has hit the nail on the head (pun intended). I've had good results with the Aquarian snare side heads.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Yeah, I think Fred has hit the nail on the head (pun intended). I've had good results with the Aquarian snare side heads.
I don't know...call me stubborn, but I think the snare should allow any type of head to be used. I shouldn't have to use special heads (or one specific brand) because of a flaw on the drum. It's more of a compromise than a solution.
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
I just can't believe your luck (or lack thereof) with anything branded Ludwig!!

I'm not aware of the problem you have and haven't had any issue with either my BB or supra, but I tend to agree......you should be able to slap any head on it. Interested in a gander at your pics. This is not a problem I've ever heard of before..........I'm thinking someone at Ludwig has it in for you. :-(
 

Pocket-full-of-gold

Platinum Member
Any pics yet Zam?

I checked mine out, the gap between butt plate and collar is not huge, but there's enough room for any head to be cranked down. I'm a bit intrigued.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Not a great pic and I didn't have time to take them apart and snap a photo w/ ruler next to each of them...but it's still pretty damn clear.

Now, the reso head on the BB currently is barely *finger* tightened. This head is 3 weeks old and already touches the butt when i crank it to where I like it - which is about 4-5 turns, per-lug.

Obviously, as you can see, the maple snare can handle any sort of tension on the reso side.
 

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utdrummer

Senior Member
Beautiful drum, no doubt, but it is evident it is drilled wrong. Anyway you could compare it to another where you bought it? You shouldn't have to compromise on a drum of that caliber.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Beautiful drum, no doubt, but it is evident it is drilled wrong. Anyway you could compare it to another where you bought it? You shouldn't have to compromise on a drum of that caliber.
Unfortunately, no. Bought it from Memphis Drum Shop and I live in Idaho...and there are no BB's in stores here, to be found.

However, I have owned a BB prior to this one. I actually sold the BB w/ tube lugs that I had so I could step up to the "brass-on-brass" model. I never paid attention to the butt on the old one and I always tuned it any which way I wanted, so I'm assuming it *wasn't* drilled wrong. This one became obvious when I suddenly couldn't crank the lugs on the butt-side any further.
 

utdrummer

Senior Member
I hear ya,,,really sad all around. I just looked on Ebay at a few like yours and best I could tell, they all may be made that way. Just doesn't seem right. Check out the Ludwig site and see if there is any difference. Best of luck to ya.
 

sqadan

Senior Member
Wow... that does not look right to me either. There should almost certainly be more room between the rim and the butt plate.

I'd take it back and / or call Ludwig customer service and see if they'll replace it.
 

gwbaker

Senior Member
If this is the way this drum is suppose to be, I would be shocked. It could be so, but if not... this is what I would do. I would find out where the corporate office of Ludwig is and who the ceo/cfo or whatever head-knocker has his reputation on the line and google his address or telephone number. I would contact him and tell him that you have been a Ludwig man your whole life (always defending Ludwig from whatever errant piker which might come down that pike) and that when you were born that your mother was distressed to find a keystone badge birthmark around you navel. That your disappoint knew no bounds. Then I would tell him that I would love for him to see this disfigured snare and offer to ship it to him for his inspection. And then when he would do ANYTHING to get rid of you... I would ask him what he could do for ME..... the boy with the bastard snare.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
If this is the way this drum is suppose to be, I would be shocked. It could be so, but if not... this is what I would do. I would find out where the corporate office of Ludwig is and who the ceo/cfo or whatever head-knocker has his reputation on the line and google his address or telephone number. I would contact him and tell him that you have been a Ludwig man your whole life (always defending Ludwig from whatever errant piker which might come down that pike) and that when you were born that your mother was distressed to find a keystone badge birthmark around you navel. That your disappoint knew no bounds. Then I would tell him that I would love for him to see this disfigured snare and offer to ship it to him for his inspection. And then when he would do ANYTHING to get rid of you... I would ask him what he could do for ME..... the boy with the bastard snare.
Haha! Excellent. I literally went through this process already trying to get a competently-made set of Classic Maple drums. I guess this snare just isn't that important to me. There are too many well made, great sounding brass snares out there for 1/3 of the price of this thing. I'm looking into a refund.
 

con struct

Platinum Member
There's no way that snare-butt is where it's supposed to be, no way. I'd say that you've definitely got a case for a full refund.

I'd also say that Ludwig very much needs to be made aware of this. I wonder how many more like this there are out there?
 
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