Ludwig (New) Club Dates and Classic Maple Questions

Chunkaway

Silver Member
I have been thinking about picking up a new Club Date kit or a Classic Maple kit. I really dig the Club Dates, but I am not a fan of the bass drum legs. Does anyone know if it is possible to order the bass drum from Ludwig without the gull wing spurs installed? I'd rather just put on the standard telescopic spurs, instead of the gull wings.

Secondly, does anyone know what are the biggest sonic differences between the Club Dates and the Classic Maples? I have owned some Classic Maples in the past and I really liked them, but the Club Dates seem really intriguing to me. I live in Singapore, so playing these kits before I buy is out of the question, sadly.
 

moxman

Silver Member
Played both.. very different drums from the mid-60s (CDs) and 70s (CMs). Classic Maples are more of a 70's classic rock sounding kit.. it was popular to tune them really low for that thoomy tom sound when recording. They are good drums (a bit big and heavy compared to the CDs). The Club Dates are just what they sound like.. great sounding little kit in a small club or recorded. Fairly lightweight and easy to move..hardware a bit dated by todays standards but it all works.. and can be updated. I recall the spurs were a pain as you had to thumbscrew them.. compared to swivel mounted spurs etc. I could be off on my history as it was a long time ago.. but that's what I remember.. did they re-issue them and update them?
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
From what I understand, the Club Dates are a different wood, and the bearing edge (the important part) is a 30-degree round-over. The Classic Maples are 6-ply maple with a basic 45-degree edge. Both sound great, but I think the 30-degree round-over edge produces a somewhat more muted tone (that's a guess). I know my Classic Maples from 1980 sound very sharp sometimes.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
Club Dates are 7-ply, mixed maple and poplar, and have a fully rounded bearing edge. Classic Maple has a 7-ply all maple shell and a single 45 bearing edge.

I don't know if it is possible to order the Club Dates with modern folding spurs but that's the one drawback I see with these kits. Adding a memory lock would probably help (the current classic bracket has a notch for a memory lock) but I'd rather have different spurs myself. Sometimes the old way of doing things is just older, not better.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
K.. CD's re-issued in 2012. Looks like the same hardware but can't tell from the pictures.
There are two re-issues. Prior to this year the first Club Dates had Bowtie lugs, and were made overseas with a cherry/gumwood shell. The current Club Dates with the flat back Imperial lugs are made in Monroe with a maple/poplar shell.
 

jbonzo1

Silver Member
I know you can order a CM kit without spurs but the CM's are more custom than the CD's.
The biggest problem with special requests to Ludwig is they need a code for it.
When I wanted Birdseye Maple on my Legacy kit, which was not available at the time, they said, "No problem, we just need to create a new code for the finish." My drums arrived seven months later.
You would need a dealer who has a great relationship with Ludwig. Dale's Drum Shop is my choice.
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
Club Dates are 7-ply, mixed maple and poplar, and have a fully rounded bearing edge. Classic Maple has a 7-ply all maple shell and a single 45 bearing edge.

I don't know if it is possible to order the Club Dates with modern folding spurs but that's the one drawback I see with these kits. Adding a memory lock would probably help (the current classic bracket has a notch for a memory lock) but I'd rather have different spurs myself. Sometimes the old way of doing things is just older, not better.
But is older really just older? DW uses those older Spurs on their Frequent Flyer kits and nobody complains about those. I think the design holds up rather well, no?
 

charliedrummer

Senior Member
From other posts I've read I get the impression that the brackets for the gull wing spurs on the new 2016 Club Dates are positioned a little high on the bass drum. If you look at photos different online retailers have posted, the spurs are often angled inward towards the drum to compensate for this. I think they would be more effective, offering more stability, if the brackets were mounted down a bit more like on the new INDe drums.

I think the limited ability to customize these kits is helping to keep the price down, so I doubt they will substitute a different set of spurs. As someone suggested, try asking a dealer that has a close relationship with Ludwig, perhaps Steve Maxwell. Sometimes you can get something out of the ordinary going through a dealer that has a track record with Ludwig. I was thinking of doing the same since I think it would be cool to get one of these kits in a classic white marine pearl wrap, which currently is not an option.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
But is older really just older? DW uses those older Spurs on their Frequent Flyer kits and nobody complains about those. I think the design holds up rather well, no?
If no one is complaining I have to wonder if anyone is buying them either.

In my experience with vintage Ludwig the folding gullwing spur is a PITA because that bracket isn't really designed to hold against rotational forces very well. If the bracket loosens up from vibration or just not getting tightened firmly enough the bass drum rolls over.

As I mentioned above the newer classic bracket has notches for memory locks so using one on the new spurs might help prevent the drum from rolling as easily but even still it's a less than ideal application for the classic bracket. I don't understand the notion of using hardware that's accident prone today just because that's the way they used to do it.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Yes the Club Dates sound very muted. So muted in fact that I find the toms very difficult to tune to anything other than cardboard. The muting robs the shells of a musical note. Especially the small tom. They are 2-ply maple outer, 3-ply poplar core, 2-ply maple inner so 4 plys are maple but the small tom is very muted. The floor tom you can get a musical note out of it, but not small tom. The bass sounds really good, though. Bearing edges? Maybe. I dunno. Other boutique manufacturers seem to get musicality out of rounded bearings on small toms. Not this kit. And they come with Remo Ambassador heads so it ain't the heads. The small tom has small imperfections on the bearing edge there is glue or excess residue from lacquer or something on about 5% of total bearing edge on what's now the bottom. Anyway, I'm not keeping them; I want a musical sounding kit and the tom issues I just can't live with. Maybe I'll pay the extra and goto the Ludwig Maple Legacy. Or Inde. Or C&C. I'd love a Craviottto they have a $3,600 3 piece now but that's a stretch financially.


From what I understand, the Club Dates are a different wood, and the bearing edge (the important part) is a 30-degree round-over. The Classic Maples are 6-ply maple with a basic 45-degree edge. Both sound great, but I think the 30-degree round-over edge produces a somewhat more muted tone (that's a guess). I know my Classic Maples from 1980 sound very sharp sometimes.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Yes the spurs are a pain in the arse on CD's. I have to use little rubber things under them like what you use under furniture legs or even ceramic coasters to get them rise even 1/4 inch above floor.

From other posts I've read I get the impression that the brackets for the gull wing spurs on the new 2016 Club Dates are positioned a little high on the bass drum. If you look at photos different online retailers have posted, the spurs are often angled inward towards the drum to compensate for this. I think they would be more effective, offering more stability, if the brackets were mounted down a bit more like on the new INDe drums.

I think the limited ability to customize these kits is helping to keep the price down, so I doubt they will substitute a different set of spurs. As someone suggested, try asking a dealer that has a close relationship with Ludwig, perhaps Steve Maxwell. Sometimes you can get something out of the ordinary going through a dealer that has a track record with Ludwig. I was thinking of doing the same since I think it would be cool to get one of these kits in a classic white marine pearl wrap, which currently is not an option.
 

Groov-E

Silver Member
Yes the Club Dates sound very muted. So muted in fact that I find the toms very difficult to tune to anything other than cardboard. The muting robs the shells of a musical note. Especially the small tom. They are 2-ply maple outer, 3-ply poplar core, 2-ply maple inner so 4 plys are maple but the small tom is very muted. The floor tom you can get a musical note out of it, but not small tom. The bass sounds really good, though. Bearing edges? Maybe. I dunno. Other boutique manufacturers seem to get musicality out of rounded bearings on small toms. Not this kit. And they come with Remo Ambassador heads so it ain't the heads. The small tom has small imperfections on the bearing edge there is glue or excess residue from lacquer or something on about 5% of total bearing edge on what's now the bottom. Anyway, I'm not keeping them; I want a musical sounding kit and the tom issues I just can't live with. Maybe I'll pay the extra and goto the Ludwig Maple Legacy. Or Inde. Or C&C. I'd love a Craviottto they have a $3,600 3 piece now but that's a stretch financially.
For less $ and impeccable quality all-around, try the c&c player date 2. I can't get a bad sound out of them, best built kit I ever owned. In the same category, George Way Tuxedo maple/poplar/maple. I think Ronn only plans on building walnut kit this year though but i'm not 100% on that. I love Ludwig, but I haven't played a CD so I can't really comment. Happy hunting !
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
Yeah the C&C PDII is on my list, although they are $500 more than Ludwig Club Dates. They're not less $$ they are significantly more than Club Dates. But handmade by C&C in Missouri so I'd expect better quality control.

I am thinking twice about rounded bearings though, as that might be most significant factor to the muted toms on Ludwig Club Dates.

For less $ and impeccable quality all-around, try the c&c player date 2. I can't get a bad sound out of them, best built kit I ever owned. In the same category, George Way Tuxedo maple/poplar/maple. I think Ronn only plans on building walnut kit this year though but i'm not 100% on that. I love Ludwig, but I haven't played a CD so I can't really comment. Happy hunting !
 

Chunkaway

Silver Member
From other posts I've read I get the impression that the brackets for the gull wing spurs on the new 2016 Club Dates are positioned a little high on the bass drum. If you look at photos different online retailers have posted, the spurs are often angled inward towards the drum to compensate for this. I think they would be more effective, offering more stability, if the brackets were mounted down a bit more like on the new INDe drums.
.

This is exactly what I have seen. I have a couple of vintage Ludwig kits (late 60s era) and the gull wing spurs are terrible. I have switched them out to the Atlas spurs, but I'd rather just have the basic telescopic spurs.
 

Chunkaway

Silver Member
For less $ and impeccable quality all-around, try the c&c player date 2. I can't get a bad sound out of them, best built kit I ever owned. In the same category, George Way Tuxedo maple/poplar/maple. I think Ronn only plans on building walnut kit this year though but i'm not 100% on that. I love Ludwig, but I haven't played a CD so I can't really comment. Happy hunting !
I am a huge lover of C&C drums. I have owned four of their kits and currently have two (a 12th & Vine and an acrylic kit) of their sets. I would buy another C&C kit, but I am looking for something a little different. I tend toward a vintage sound, but I'm open. I was looking at Grestch, Ludwig, and DW, but I'm trying to keep this purchase under $2k.

Second issue is I need the kit to be wrapped due to my current circumstances. The choices of wraps that C&C offers in the PDII line are not something I dig.
 
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Matt Bo Eder

Guest
If no one is complaining I have to wonder if anyone is buying them either.

In my experience with vintage Ludwig the folding gullwing spur is a PITA because that bracket isn't really designed to hold against rotational forces very well. If the bracket loosens up from vibration or just not getting tightened firmly enough the bass drum rolls over.

As I mentioned above the newer classic bracket has notches for memory locks so using one on the new spurs might help prevent the drum from rolling as easily but even still it's a less than ideal application for the classic bracket. I don't understand the notion of using hardware that's accident prone today just because that's the way they used to do it.
Perhaps they should've taken a cue from Sonor, who basically uses the gulping approach - but those are stupid solid.
 

Winston_Wolf

Platinum Member
This is exactly what I have seen. I have a couple of vintage Ludwig kits (late 60s era) and the gull wing spurs are terrible. I have switched them out to the Atlas spurs, but I'd rather just have the basic telescopic spurs.
I haven't looked at them side by side, but aren't the ATLAS spur legs shorter than the bent metal rods used on the Club Date? If so, with the higher mounting position you might not be able to position ATLAS spurs well at all.

Perhaps they should've taken a cue from Sonor, who basically uses the gulping approach - but those are stupid solid.
I don't love gull wing spurs at all, but I totally agree Sonor and a few others have improved upon the idea quite well over the last 50 or so years, which is why I'm frustrated Ludwig is using a bad design just for the sake of being retro.
 

Rattlin' Bones

Gold Member
They have a very cool WMP wrap that looks very retro.

I am a huge lover of C&C drums. I have owned four of their kits and currently have two (a 12th & Vine and an acrylic kit) of their sets. I would buy another C&C kit, but I am looking for something a little different. I tend toward a vintage sound, but I'm open. I was looking at Grestch, Ludwig, and DW, but I'm trying to keep this purchase under $2k.

Second issue is I need the kit to be wrapped due to my current circumstances. The choices of wraps that C&C offers in the PDII line are not something I dig.
 
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