Ludwig, I would like my drums please

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sticks4drums

Guest
I would take the whole set back to the dealer and demand a full refund. Go elsewhere and order another brand. There are many out there that would love to have your business.
How did you know I was thinking that. I guess Ludwig people are like Apple people :)
 

turbojerk

Senior Member
I would take the whole set back to the dealer and demand a full refund. Go elsewhere and order another brand. There are many out there that would love to have your business.
That's easier said than done once you fall in love with a certain (brand whatever) kits sound. Trust me, I know...
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I would take the whole set back to the dealer and demand a full refund. Go elsewhere and order another brand. There are many out there that would love to have your business.
This is what I would do, too. Much as I like Ludwig when they get it right, I have no confidence in their ability to deliver - I took delivery of my botched Ludwig back in '95 and it doesn't appear that much has changed in the intervening 16 years. Fortunately for me, Ludwig aren't the only major drum company I like. Yamaha's are amazing. Them, Gretsch USA, Sonor, DW, Mapex, Tama, Pearl... There are an awful lot of good drum companies around consistently cranking out good product these days.

Life's too short to screw around with a company that can't seem to take itself seriously.
 

Boom

Silver Member
Frustrating as it is, 9 weeks (on the replacements) is NOT a ridiculously long time.

Bermuda
True Bermuda. I'm just overly sensitive right now because of what I just went through. He hasn't been told "No" to anything yet. It is at that point though that going the legal route, either through the consumer protection bureau or an attorney, is actually a good option.

That is all I'm saying. I agree, he isn't at that point now.
 

Boom

Silver Member
I would take the whole set back to the dealer and demand a full refund. Go elsewhere and order another brand. There are many out there that would love to have your business.
I also agree with this. I'm seriously considering cancelling my BB order right now. I've lost quite a bit of confidence in that company from my personal experiences and from reading enough complaints lately.
 

sharky 007

Member
Wow that sucks... I hope you get it resolved soon. I ordered my Vistalite Zep kit back in March. The store told me 8 weeks and they came a week early, I guess I was lucky. The only QC issue I had was the butt end bolts where loose on the 402.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
Frustrating as it is, 9 weeks (on the replacements) is NOT a ridiculously long time
I agree. But it's not the 9 weeks that I'm unhappy with. It's that they've blown three deadlines they've given me for sending out these drums. And that Ludwig habitually won't communicate what is going on, and doesn't return calls to my shop until weeks of waiting have gone by.
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
9 weeks may not be a long time but why do they keep giving him dates that they fail to meet. someone needs to get off of their butt, walk out in the the plant and see just where this drum is in the process and stop, er........fibbing. It really isn't that hard. this entire thread has to be of concern to a company that big and if It were my drums I would copy and paste this thread and send it to their customer service dept. and ask how is this for international advertising.?????
 

Boom

Silver Member
I agree. But it's not the 9 weeks that I'm unhappy with. It's that they've blown three deadlines they've given me for sending out these drums. And that Ludwig habitually won't communicate what is going on, and doesn't return calls to my shop until weeks of waiting have gone by.
The lack of communication is why I mentioned a lawyer. When a company is stonewalling you, which Ludwig is clearly doing, there is a reason for it. And that reason is NEVER beneficial to the consumer.

Gruntersdad has it right. This is a strong enough indication that cancelling the order and going with a different company is in order.

I really think we drummers put up with way too much. If we all pooled our stories about missed deadlines and runarounds, I think we'd be shocked by how some companies do it more than others.

And the reason some of them do it more is because they face no ramifications for doing so. We should deal with companies that want our business. Not with companies that at some time in their past were king. And again, I have an outstanding BB order right now. So it isn't like I'm hating on Ludwig here. I'm hating on terrible customer service.

In the end, Soupy has to do what makes him happiest. That could be waiting out Ludwig. But the community shouldn't be pushing for that. Because that doesn't correct Ludwig's behavior. The only thing that does that is losing dollars. And it is Ludwig correcting this behavior that benefits us all.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
To be fair, the original order went exactly as planned. I was told 9-12 weeks, I first called my shop for a status around 9 or 10 weeks later, and was told the drums shipped that same day. That was a Friday, I had them on Monday. It's just this stupid replacement order that they're dropping the ball on.

Also, I'm getting tired of being drumless, so I really don't want to restart the process and order from someone else. The impatience equally makes me want to stick with Ludwig and get these drums /any day now/, as much as it makes me want to find something else.
 
A

audiotech

Guest
That's easier said than done once you fall in love with a certain (brand whatever) kits sound. Trust me, I know...
This is in response to another person on this thread asking for any other known Ludwig failures.

Turbojerk, I don't remember if it was you or another individual that I relayed this story to a couple of months ago. A Five Star shop that I frequent was promoting the fact that they were going to start again carrying the higher end Ludwig lines. This was after they sold their last Classic Maple kit two years earlier. This was of great news to me. A few weeks later I showed up at the shop and saw a box with the Ludwig logos. I said to a salesperson that I know well, that it was great seeing Ludwigs coming into their store again. His response was that it wasn't coming into the store, but was being sent back to the factory. After opening the box, which was in excellent condition, they saw finish flaws on the Exotic kit. The store owner was outraged. It was the same Five Star shop where you bought your Legacys. The Five Star shop was not to blame at all, they were just receiving inventory from the Ludwig factory. Who really knows how many of these situation we aren't hearing about. That's two that I know of personally.

Dennis
 

Stroman

Platinum Member
I wish I had the $$$ to buy the Ludwig company outright and make it what it ought to be...
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
The lack of communication is why I mentioned a lawyer. When a company is stonewalling you, which Ludwig is clearly doing, there is a reason for it. And that reason is NEVER beneficial to the consumer.
Assuming you want everything to be legal, the customer didn't actually do business with Ludwig - they did business with a dealer, and that's where the remedy is. There is no legal recourse against Ludwig in this situation, nor is there any against the dealer at this point as things have been described. If Soupy has tried to get a refund from the dealer and they refused, it would be worth pursuing with the appropriate agency. But as far as I've been able to tell, it's just a waiting game right now, and that's no reason to expend time or money with an attorney or anyone else.

Wait for the drums, or ask for your money back. Those are the only realistic, necessary options at this point. And I agree that it's important to post such problems in a forum like this. I never like to see it be Ludwig, but in their defense, they're hardly the only company with long lead times and the occasional quality issue. People take more notice simply because it's Ludwig.

Bermuda
 
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sticks4drums

Guest
Assuming you want everything to be legal, the customer didn't actually do business with Ludwig - they did business with a dealer, and that's where the remedy is. There is no legal recourse against Ludwig in this situation, nor is there any against the dealer at this point as things have been described. If Soupy has tried to get a refund from the dealer and they refused, it would be worth pursuing with the appropriate agency. But as far as I've been able to tell, it's just a waiting game right now, and that's no reason to expend time or money with an attorney or anyone else.

Wait for the drums, or ask for your money back. Those are the only realistic, necessary options at this point. And I agree that it's important to post such problems in a forum like this. I never like to see it be Ludwig, but in their defense, they're hardly the only company with long lead times and the occasional quality issue. People take more notice simply because it's Ludwig.

Bermuda
Don't forget they also get cut a lot of slack because it's Ludwig :)
 

MikeM

Platinum Member
I never like to see it be Ludwig, but in their defense, they're hardly the only company with long lead times and the occasional quality issue. People take more notice simply because it's Ludwig.
I don't like seeing it be Ludwig more than anyone else because they're a company I've dug since I was a kid, but to suggest that they're no more guilty of shipping lemons than anyone else doesn't feel credible and is simply not supported by the growing mountain of anecdotal evidence on this site.
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I don't like seeing it be Ludwig more than anyone else because they're a company I've dug since I was a kid, but to suggest that they're no more guilty of shipping lemons than anyone else doesn't feel credible and is simply not supported by the growing mountain of anecdotal evidence on this site.
That's what I'm saying - people don't talk about all of the other QC issues with other companies, so it looks like Ludwig is worse. I know more than a few pros who endorse more than a few companies, and they all have their complaints. I'd say real life trumps the posts in a given forum.

Bermuda
 

Soupy

Silver Member
I think this thread shows that Ludwig still gets a lot of mindshare from drummers, and elicits a lot more passionate responses (both love and hate) than most other drum makers. I bet this thread wouldn't had gotten as much participation if it were about Gretsch/Pearl/Tama/Mapex/Yamaha... Probably anyone except DW, as the big round lug love/hate has a life of it's own.
 

BGH

Gold Member
I don't know if I agree. This thread is getting moderate attention. I've seen a number of other threads about defective items of other brands. And, I've seen some of these threads get more attention than this thread. Maybe its because Ludwigs have been so loved and revered over the years, that guys have trouble accepting situations like these, with a company like Ludwig. Its disappointing, but its reality.

The true mark of a great dealer or manufacturer, is how they respond to these kinds of problems. You know the saying, 'the customer is always right.' Defective drums need to be replaced, period. There should be no hesitation by the parties. Good money was spent on this kit. The OP should expect to get a perfect kit.

I've received defective drums from both Yamaha and Pearl. Fortunately, in these cases, I received an immediate refund in one case and replacement drums in the other case. I did have to wait a few months for the replacements, but was able to use the original drums 'til the replacements arrived. I was treated fairly, everything was resolved and Yamaha and Pearl and the dealers came through for me and they retained a customer. I hope OP can get the same result-he deserves it!
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
I don't know if I agree. This thread is getting moderate attention. I've seen a number of other threads about defective items of other brands. And, I've seen some of these threads get more attention than this thread. Maybe its because Ludwigs have been so loved and revered over the years, that guys have trouble accepting situations like these, with a company like Ludwig. Its disappointing, but its reality.

The true mark of a great dealer or manufacturer, is how they respond to these kinds of problems. You know the saying, 'the customer is always right.' Defective drums need to be replaced, period. There should be no hesitation by the parties. Good money was spent on this kit. The OP should expect to get a perfect kit.

I've received defective drums from both Yamaha and Pearl. Fortunately, in these cases, I received an immediate refund in one case and replacement drums in the other case. I did have to wait a few months for the replacements, but was able to use the original drums 'til the replacements arrived. I was treated fairly, everything was resolved and Yamaha and Pearl and the dealers came through for me and they retained a customer. I hope OP can get the same result-he deserves it!

+1.I agree with this,but I think as I have stated before,Ludwig is not exactly under its own control.It has a parent company in Selmer,who does consider Ludwig the "red headed ugly stepchild".They use the name Ludwig when selling to the school instrument market.If they aren't taking a loss in keeping the doors open,that seems to be ok with them.Expanding Ludwig buget is not what they seem to want.Its truly a shame because when Ludwig gets it right,which they honestly do more then not,they make a great and distinctve sounding drum.The only other drum company out there that can come close to their mojo is Gretsch.Order a set of USA Customs,pay thousands of dollars,wait 8 months,and althougth they sound great,you are still getting a drum shell made by Keller,not Gretsch.Ludwig makes their own shells.

I would almost gaurantee that Ludwig is grossly understaffed,and under pressure to meet production dates,come hell or high water,because the money end of the business is in the imported entry level,and mid line kits....not the USA made stuff.Thats true of a lot of drum companys.

How do you think Pearl got as big as it is?Answer: by selling over a million Export kits,made in their Taiwan plant.

Steve B
 

Boom

Silver Member
I would almost gaurantee that Ludwig is grossly understaffed
Steve B
To go with what Steve is saying, I talked to the shop that has my BB order from March. They told me again that the BB they ordered 2 months in advance of mine still hasn't come in (they are both identical so they are going to give me that one)....which means that fresh BB orders are running about 1 year now. Sure doesn't sound like they have enough staff.
 
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