Ludwig, I would like my drums please

cdrums21

Gold Member
You are so right about their strong brand name and them just running it into the ground. Ludwig is synonymous with drums and they had and have a great sound. They were THE rock drums for years. They lost favor for sure when Yamaha and other companies were producing flawless great sounding drums. The craftsmanship on Ludwig kits didn't hold a candle to their overseas competitors. They started to make a comeback in recent years, but I still have to scratch my head over some things. Poor customer service is bad enough, but take their legendary snare offerings, the 402 and the Black Beauty. If I had created somewhat of a masterpiece with an instrument, I would make darn sure that the original formula and specs were never altered. From what I understand, the newer 402's and Black Beauties are different than their 60's and 70's counterparts in key areas that have altered their sound. With the addition of the sound sucking rubber gaskets to cheaper parts and possibly thinner shells, they are trying hard to screw up what made them so successful in the first place. I don't get it, and I probably won't ever buy them again. I have a vintage early 70's Bonham kit that I love, but as far as newer gear, I'll look elsewhere....sorry Ludwig.
 

larryz

Platinum Member
Been playing my DTXpress IV Special the past months. I imagine this is what it's like for a smoker to be on the patch. Addresses the craving, but isn't quite satisfying.

Larry, how many drums can their endorsers really be ordering all at once? Besides, the whole point of endorsements is marketing, and I'm exactly the kind of person that marketing targets. Namely, I have the money to buy a relatively high-end set of drums. Is that not what the business side of things boils down to?
Yes. I was just rambling. But yes, you'd think that AT LEAST the purchasers of higher-end stuff would get some love or a straight answer. It's not like you ordered an Accent or low end kit.
 

Fox622003

Gold Member
I second contacting an attorney. Consumer laws are beautiful; well, not for the companies I guess...


Fox.
 

tamadrm

Platinum Member
Ha! Who was that? LoL!

No 2nd replacement BD yet by the way. They did send two VERY nice LM936MBS boom stands as a gift. I did appreciate that!
So Ludwig is at least trying to make you happy.Its a gesture of saying we're sorry....we were wrong.

Besides you and Soupy,who else on this forum has had issues with Ludwig?

Please come foward so we may address all of these issues to Ludwig as a whole,because if there is a lot of you,then there is a systemic break down,and not isolated cases of QC issues.

By the way..there has in the last few weeks,been serious QC issues with at least 2 DW kits also,so maybe it torches and pitchforks time for them too.These is no excuse for letting defective drums out the door.Right?

Quality control issues will always plague instruments made by hand,because those hands are attached to human beings,who like myself and all of you...are fallible,and not perfect.

I'm sorry that Turbojerk,and Soupy have had problems with getting the quality instruments they deserve to have ,and in a timely manner,I understand your frustration.But as an aside,in 1972,I had to wait 8 months for my black oyster pearl dbl bass Ludwigs.

Steve B
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
I hate to hear that. Maybe you can sick Bermuda on them.
I just spotted this thread, and as an endorser - and a drummer who's played/owned Ludwig drums since 1965 - I also hate to hear it. I've encountered a QC issue or two, there's no denying Ludwig's been battling with it lately. I don't know if there's an explanation for the past problems, but they're aware of the perception of the company and have recently taken steps to make sure that every drum is right from now on. They know their future depends on it.

Quality is crucial to a company's growth and survival, and although Ludwig's hardly the only company to have issues now and then, drummers take it very personally when they do. I know I don't feel good about it. It's as if Pearl or Tama or DW's occasional gaffs get excused, but Ludwig gets taken to task for them. But I think that speaks highly of what drummers expect from Ludwig, and the company knows they need to get back on track.

As for order times, I really don't know the problem there. Granted they're making 3 lines of drums in Monroe and business must be quite good, but I'd think 4-8 weeks is plenty of time to get a kit made and shipped. Lead times are funny things though. Try ordering a USA Gretsch kit and see if it shows up in less than 4 or 5 months. I guarantee you they're not nearly as busy as Ludwig, and they don't even have to make their shells.

For the OP, getting a lawyer will only cost you money, unless he happens to be a sympathetic musician, friend or relative. Don't spend it. You recourse is with the shop directly, and it's their job to deal with Ludwig. Honestly, as a bigger customer than you, they have much more clout. I think you have a good case for getting your money back, although that does put you back at square one. If you place a new order with another company, I doubt you'd see those drums before the Ludwigs show up. I know it's been a frustrating situation, but at this point, do you really want to end up with something you obviously didn't like enough to order in the first place?

I'm sorry to hear about both the original problem, and the delay in shipping the replacement drums. I wish I could offer an explanation for both.

Bermuda
 

Boom

Silver Member
Ps. I'm waiting on a BB for at least 8 months now. And I had ordered a supra LM402 and got two total junk drums and just cancelled the order after the 2nd one. Ludwig is definitely having issues. But as I said, I'm still dumb enough to keep my order alive for the BB.
Besides you and Soupy,who else on this forum has had issues with Ludwig?

Steve B
I'll elaborate on my problems with Ludwig in April of this year. I ordered an LM402 (Luddy supra for those that don't know) and it came with the bearing edge not flat and even out of round. Sent it back. Replacement drum came with the worst chroming job I've ever seen and I regret I don't have pics to show it. So bad that there is no way you can convince me they even have someone working Quality Control there. Obvious the second you looked at the drum as when you looked at your reflection in what should be a beautiful mirror in the chrome it looked like you were under water and real blurry.

I then just cancelled the order all together. And waiting 8 plus months on a black beauty as I mention above seems a little crazy...and I was told there was one ordered 2 months in front of my drum that still hasn't come in at the local shop (so 10 months then).

So there is at least 3 of us...and you know there are many more.
 

Boom

Silver Member
What happens in 6 months when a hoop breaks or a lug disintegrates? You will feel that there's no point in complaining and just order replacement parts.

I think when your confidence is affected like this it is time to cancel the order. Just my view. Bad luck.

Davo
I couldn't agree more with this. You will begin to feel like a whiner (I'm going through the same thing with another drum company) and it just destroys all the happiness you should have when buying a new drum set. If you aren't totally in love with these drums, cancel them.

I second contacting an attorney. Consumer laws are beautiful; well, not for the companies I guess...

Fox.
This is so true. See, companies are hoping that you take Bermuda's advice to not go the attorney route (not bombing on you Bermuda, so don't take offense)...they are hoping it seems like a hassle.

But I can guarantee, the second you get off the phone with an attorney that deals with consumer protection, you will feel so much better. I never realized what a great resource an attorney was until I had to get one for the problem I'm having.

You might be able to get a quick consultation for free. Calling one never hurts. The attorney will tell you to inform the shop that you have consulted an attorney...and maybe some other small stuff...you'll see how quickly things will change once the shop and Ludwig realize you have an attorney in your corner.

We have consumer laws (at least in USA) that are there to protect the consumer from being jerked around like you are being. Use the law to make yourself feel better. That's what they are there for.
 

larryz

Platinum Member
. For the OP, getting a lawyer will only cost you money, unless he happens to be a sympathetic musician, friend or relative. Don't spend it.
I'll second that. I've been in the legal field 20 years and you should always use the legal system as a very last resort. The only people who make money and benefit, usually, are the attorneys. Give Ludwig the opportunity to make it right, but don't let them give you vague answers to your questions anymore. Good luck.
 

Boom

Silver Member
Larry, I agree use them as a last resort. I guess the debate is when are we at the "last resort" stage?

If the company is at least communicating with you, then maybe it isn't that bad. But if the company keeps telling you one thing, then not following through, at some point, it is time.

I can just say, again, from my personal experience in just the past month, that consulting an attorney completely served my purposes. I went from a ball of stress that was about to get ripped off, to getting promises of complete resolution (promises in writing/email). And I was only on the phone with an attorney for 15 min.
 

Soupy

Silver Member
You recourse is with the shop directly, and it's their job to deal with Ludwig.
always use the legal system as a very last resort. The only people who make money and benefit, usually, are the attorneys.
I have to agree with Bermuda and Larry on both of these points. I'm nowhere near the nuclear option of the legal system, and I haven't yet breached the topic of canceling the order with my shop. Day one of this mess they told me they'd do whatever it took to get it resolved, and they'll get their fair chance to do so.

What's killing me isn't the waiting, it's the lack of communication from the manufacturer. Wonder if I'd get anywhere posting to their Facebook wall.
 

Nodiggie

Gold Member
Fist off, very sorry to hear this news Soupy.

Last May 15th, I received my new kit (not a Ludwig) that took 6 months to get. Not too bad a lead time but was still a full 90 days longer than I was told from the dealer. In short, I had major issues with the 10" tom tuning. I even had a new Evans head replaced at no charge (thanks EVANS) because it had a nice 2" bubble that wouldn't tighten up. At the end of the day after beating my head open in frustration with this tom; I found a very bad bearing edge that was not 100% flat. The dealer wanted me to send it back and wait another WHO KNOWS how long on a replacement. Not an option for me, I re-cut it myself and it sings like a bird now.

Soupy, I hope this works out in your favor soon. Very frustrating, indeed. Everyone has issues with quality at one time or another. I don't see an easy fix on selecting a replacement either unless the dealer wants to play ball on another kit of your choice that they have in stock. Very difficult decision to make since you already selected the kit you had your heart set on.
 

Boom

Silver Member
I have to agree with Bermuda and Larry on both of these points. I'm nowhere near the nuclear option of the legal system, and I haven't yet breached the topic of canceling the order with my shop. Day one of this mess they told me they'd do whatever it took to get it resolved, and they'll get their fair chance to do so.

What's killing me isn't the waiting, it's the lack of communication from the manufacturer. Wonder if I'd get anywhere posting to their Facebook wall.
Ok, soupy. If you aren't there yet, then, of course don't worry about getting an attorney. I just wanted you to know it isn't a bad option.

While just sitting around here, I read some more stuff from the consumer protection booklet for my state here in USA. It is a fascinating read to see all the ways a consumer is protected. They have a whole section just for hearing aids!

They give you a list of things to do before you file with the consumer protection bureau. One of them was stressed in bold "BE ASSERTIVE" when dealing with the company that is wronging you. That could be the shop, Ludwig or both. Let them know how unacceptable this is.
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Man, this is yet another Ludwig bummer. :(

Saturns are nice drums, but I decided that the sound and very special characteristics of Ludwig drums were worth the pain, for me. If you search here, you'll see my MANY troubling Ludwig-related threads.

More recently, I found a new CM kit online, just sitting in a drum shop. Amazingly, it was the same finish as a kit I already had and also had the matching 100th. Anniversary badges. I picked it up for a nice price, right away. Of course, it arrived damaged (UPS's fault, this time) and the bass drum had to be replaced.

Even more amazingly, this one time only, it arrived exactly 3.5 weeks later and it's perfect. I was holding my breath, since I had three complete disasters when ordering from Ludwig, prior.

Ludwig just isn't going to survive in this day and age, with this kind of crap. I hope my favorite drum company (and American icon) manages to get their priorities straight - their customers.
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
Ludwig are nice drums, but Saturn's are way better. :p:p:p:p
Just wait until you see what I bring home this weekend. :) By the way. Which site do you know me from?
 

zambizzi

Platinum Member
Also...my advice is; never order from Ludwig through a dealer, directly. Don't do anything made-to-order. I would instead suggest shopping around on eBay and web sites of major drum shops and finding something close-or-exactly-to your liking. Let the dealer put up with ordering and re-ordering and buy a kit they've already purchased, have in stock, and is made properly.
 
S

sticks4drums

Guest
How so? I say the opposite? I know you're being coy...but you're normally very serious about this, as if your preference should be universally true. It's not.
I'm just funnin with you. The new Glen doesn't wan't to fight anymore. If he can help it. I think my drums are better and you think your drums are better. It is all good. It works actually, because you get to play yours and I get to play mine. You didn't tell me which site you know me from. It's not a secret is it? :)
 

bermuda

Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
Staff member
Larry, I agree use them as a last resort. I guess the debate is when are we at the "last resort" stage?
Frustrating as it is, 9 weeks (on the replacements) is NOT a ridiculously long time. Yes it's longer than the shop/Ludwig estimated, and yes it adds to the time since the original kit was rordered, but by itself, 9 weeks is not last resort time, nor is it time to involve an attorney. Seriously, are there damages? Has the store said he can't get his money back? Has Ludwig refused to make good on the original problem? I just don't see how getting a lawyer involved is any more effective than demanding satisfaction in person at the store.

But only the OP can decide when he's really had enough of waiting and needs to move on, taking into consideration that placing a new order from any other company is like starting over, with no guarantee of a delivery time, or that there won't be any problems. At that point, he simply has to tell the store that he wants out. Why pay an attorney who's just going to ask "have you tried to resolve it with the store?"

Bermuda
 

GruntersDad

Administrator - Mayor
Staff member
I would take the whole set back to the dealer and demand a full refund. Go elsewhere and order another brand. There are many out there that would love to have your business.
 
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