Ludwig "B" stock?

JimmyM said:
I think I’ve figured out what it is, at least for me. The BB sounds like you hear every individual snare wire vibrating separately while the Supra and Acro sound less separated and more like one single unit. I like that you can hear the BB that way, but it sounds a bit…um…I hate meaningless buzzwords, but maybe “frothy?”

That’s weird, I know, but that’s the impression I get.
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Hmm, I've not heard a difference in snare wire response between the BB and Supra. Could it be the snare wires needed changing, or the bottom head wasn't tuned to get the best snare response?
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
Hmm, I've not heard a difference in snare wire response between the BB and Supra. Could it be the snare wires needed changing, or the bottom head wasn't tuned to get the best snare response?
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I don’t think so…it’s that way in every one I’ve played or heard in a demo. I don’t even know if I’m explaining what I’m hearing correctly. It just sounds very sensitive to me in the highs to where you can discern each wire touching the head. It’s fantastic in some ways, but I think I’m so used to wood and aluminum snares that I line up sonically more with them overall. Seems like they don’t quite have that really high frequency bite of the BB and they’re a little less shrill.
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
What is it about brass that you don't like? Is it something specific like the frequencies or overtones, or is it something that's hard to describe?

I have heard that some people perceive certain frequencies differently, maybe that has something to do with it?
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To bright..thin sounding..the word shrill was used which is accurate. My description is unlike what I'm hearing on the recordings mentioned. I've got a DVD with Jeff Ocheltree where he goes over Bonhams green sparkle wood kit as well as an orange vistalite set. Bonham preferred the 402 6.5x14 but stated that he did occasionally use a 6.5x14 black beauty in the studio. The black beauty was used in the vistalite section of the DVD and sounded fantastic but again unlike what I'm hearing when I play them myself. In the video I'm thinking give me THAT drum. It's my perfect drum and a 6.5 at that!.
 
Bozozoid said:
To bright..thin sounding..the word shrill was used which is accurate. My description is unlike what I'm hearing on the recordings mentioned. I've got a DVD with Jeff Ocheltree where he goes over Bonhams green sparkle wood kit as well as an orange vistalite set. Bonham preferred the 402 6.5x14 but stated that he did occasionally use a 6.5x14 black beauty in the studio. The black beauty was used in the vistalite section of the DVD and sounded fantastic but again unlike what I'm hearing when I play them myself. In the video I'm thinking give me THAT drum. It's my perfect drum and a 6.5 at that!.
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I've never associated brass drums with a shrill sound. It's got to be the phenomenon where your ears perceive them differently. I don't know what else it could be, besides a bright-sounding room, but I'm sure you've accounted for that.

The Black Beauty has a bright component to the sound, but it also has depth and warmth. I don't hear a thin sound either. There could be other make/model of brass snares that fit this description, but I can't think of any.

My idea of a bright and thin sounding drum would be a thick stave shell. It would be super loud, yes, but also bright and thin at the same time.

This idea of people hearing different things is intriguing.
 
IBitePrettyHard said:
I've never associated brass drums with a shrill sound. It's got to be the phenomenon where your ears perceive them differently. I don't know what else it could be, besides a bright-sounding room, but I'm sure you've accounted for that.

The Black Beauty has a bright component to the sound, but it also has depth and warmth. I don't hear a thin sound either. There could be other make/model of brass snares that fit this description, but I can't think of any.

My idea of a bright and thin sounding drum would be a thick stave shell. It would be super loud, yes, but also bright and thin at the same time.

This idea of people hearing different things is intriguing.
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Well nobody is arguing that they’re not great drums, just that they’re not their thing. I’m sure you sound fine with yours.
 
OK..i guess brass is warm..full..and we'll? can someone please point me the way to that brass drum?. I've got a credit card full of brass drums I've returned..sold or traded. I'm going down with the ship on this I guess.
 
I really like the blue/olive badge on metal snare drums and some wood drums. Unfortunately, none of my local shops carry any B-stock, so if I buy a Ludwig I need to pay a lot for a new A-stock with Keystone badge. Or place a custom order and pay even more.
IME with other brands of metal snares, I find aluminium dry and sharp, and brass warm and round. Aluminium has more of a bright attack, while brass has more of a bright ring that, when dampened, transforms into a fat thud. Aluminium just gets drier when you muffle it.
 
I've got both a B-stock Black Beauty and LM402. I can't find a flaw on them. The 402 sounds as good as any of the others I've had over the years.
 
I love the fact that Ludwig sells B-stocks. My problem is that I know myself all too well. Even though I know it would sound terrific, I just don't do B-stock drums. Initially it would be fine, but I know after a few months or even a year, I would regret not spending the extra money for the keystone badge.

I'm petty, but I'm getting a little older now, and I'm becoming more and more comfortable with my pettiness. I've spend the majority of my life settling for second best and the phrase "Well, it's almost as good..." I either buy exactly what I want or I do without.
 
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IBitePrettyHard said:
I had no idea. Can't remember if I've ordered from them in the past. Their ratings are a full 5 stars. hmm
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I've been shopping at Alto Music Middletown for years, since 1995. They are easily the best music store in my area, and the largest independent music store on the East Coast. Their business model has changed since Covid though. Whereas it used to be a place where you could browse with a lot of stock visible on display, now, it's more of a warehouse operation. Once the lockdown was over, you had to make an appointment to try gear out. You could browse the top of the store and buy accessory items, but there was no admittance to the lower part. You had to call first and tell them what you wanted to check out. I had a conversation with the owner, and he told me that his business doubled during the lockdown, so when he re-opened, he laid off all the sales kids who spent too much time standing around looking at their phones, and brought in experienced MI salespeople. He called it White Glove Concierge Service, and he also started concentrating on their online business, which is very lucrative for them.

Now, they have relaxed the rules, and you can browse on the lower level, but there isn't much stock on display. You can try out anything, but they prefer you make an appointment. The stock of gear on hand is astounding.
 
JimmyM said:
I think I’ve figured out what it is, at least for me. The BB sounds like you hear every individual snare wire vibrating separately while the Supra and Acro sound less separated and more like one single unit. I like that you can hear the BB that way, but it sounds a bit…um…I hate meaningless buzzwords, but maybe “frothy?”

That’s weird, I know, but that’s the impression I get.
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When I got my 6.5x14 BB (LB417), I was having a similar issue, in that I felt the snare wires were too prominent, and muddying up my rolls and fills. I had switched over to the Puresound 20-strand, for no good reason. I went back to the original Ludwig wires, which may or may not have been better ... can't remember. I ended up fitting it with the Puresound 12-strand EQ wires, which are 6 on a side, with a gap in the middle. That totally cleaned up the sound and feel, where you now hear way more shell resonance, and the rolls and ghost notes all sing out in a well-defined and crisp, clean manner. It makes it a very unique-sounding and special drum. Worth a try to any BB owners.
 
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