Lost guitar player

jster

Junior Member
Hi guys. Jazz guitarist here. I am looking for two things. First, a decent, cheap (hopefully free), drum machine for my PC. Web based might be best. Second, some basic basic information about jazz drum beats so I can program them. A drum machine that has some good jazz beats programmed in that I can look at would be ideal. Then I could just see when you guys hit the high hat for bossa nova, etc., etc. But a really basic primer on standard beats for be-bop, swing, bossa nova, etc would help too.

Thanks in advance.
 

aaajn

Silver Member
Hi guys. Jazz guitarist here. I am looking for two things. First, a decent, cheap (hopefully free), drum machine for my PC. Web based might be best. Second, some basic basic information about jazz drum beats so I can program them. A drum machine that has some good jazz beats programmed in that I can look at would be ideal. Then I could just see when you guys hit the high hat for bossa nova, etc., etc. But a really basic primer on standard beats for be-bop, swing, bossa nova, etc would help too.

Thanks in advance.
Let me get this straight, you are on Drummer world looking for advice on a using a drum machine?
 

jster

Junior Member
Let me get this straight, you are on Drummer world looking for advice on a using a drum machine?
I wish I could afford to have a drummer come over and keep time while I run my scales but I think it would be too expensive. ;)
 

Arky

Platinum Member
I recommend getting a notation prog like e.g. GuitarPro (v6 = newest version). It's affordable and great for creating and writing down orig. stuff, but there's also tons of available GuitarPro songs written down by other people. Just get a bunch of songs you like, load them into GP and rework them to your needs or copy e.g. the drum lines into a new project.

http://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php

I don't know any web based drum machine stuff, sorry. If you're more into actually understanding what is going on in jazz drumming you should focus on listening to what jazz drummers are doing (I have no clue as to this, I'm not a jazz expert) and try to replicate this in your notation prog. GuitarPro (I guess also other progs) has some loop/repeat function with an acceleration mode which is very handy for practicing. I am using GP since their very first version and they've gone a loooong way.
 

jster

Junior Member
Come on. Don't hold out on me. How about basic drum beat info? For example, how do you play bossa nova?
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Come on. Don't hold out on me. How about basic drum beat info? For example, how do you play bossa nova?
You're a legitimate Jazz guitarist and you're asking for a Bossa Nova? Check the technique sub-forum and look at the front page of the website. You should know being a Jazz Guitarist that Jazz drummers do not play 'beats' they comp. Totally different playing paradigm. You're not listening to your drummers enough.
 

jster

Junior Member
You're a legitimate Jazz guitarist and you're asking for a Bossa Nova? Check the technique sub-forum and look at the front page of the website. You should know being a Jazz Guitarist that Jazz drummers do not play 'beats' they comp. Totally different playing paradigm. You're not listening to your drummers enough.
lol. I don't remember saying I was "legitimate." All I said was I play jazz, rather than say rock or country. Never said I was the next Metheny. So spare me the attitude buster. Hehe. And I don't have a drummer to listen to! If I did, I might not be looking for a drum machine! And I thought I made it clear, in addition to the machine, I was just looking for a basic chart of drum beats in drum notation which I assume is similar enough to musical notation.

I figured you guys would be able to gimme a link for some good basic stuff.
 

Mad About Drums

Pollyanna's Agent
Come on. Don't hold out on me. How about basic drum beat info? For example, how do you play bossa nova?
Sorry man,

It's not that I don't want to help you, is that I have NO idea how to programme such a machine, I only use a metronome and/or a click track and play an acoustic drums.

And maybe your lack of replies come to the fact that many other members/drummers are in the same situation as I do.

So perhaps you sould look for this info on a guitarists, a bass players or a keyboards players forums, you might be more lucky there.

Hope this helps.
 

azrae1l

Silver Member
ok, from one guitarist to another...

you don't need a drum machine to practice anything all you need is the same as a drummer, a click track. buy a cheap metronome and set it for the time your playing in and go, this is what a lot of guitarists do including me before i started on drums. if you absolutely need beats to play to there are plenty of play along beats on cheap $20 keyboards, most guitar instructional books come with cd's with play alongs, most music stores sell cd's of play along songs by themselves, cheap multi effects pedals usually have several dozen preprogrammed play along drum beats. all of these are already done for you and no need to program a drum machine with beats your not familiar with and given that any of those are readily available on craigslist for almost pocket change this would be the direction i would take.

although i would suggest the metronome above anything else only because once you can play to a certain time and tempo it really doesn't matter if the drummer is playing rock, country, jazz or classical grooves you'll be able to play to it.
 

jster

Junior Member
Thanks guys. I did ask around on my usual guitar forum and got just a few replies. I use a metronome. I wanted to try a drum machine. Metheny said in an interview that he has been really lucky to play with great drummers and to play with drummers who can explain what they are doing. And he went onto say that even drum machines are worthwhile. So I thought I'd get a drum machine. How about a page with some basic stuff. There is one drum machine I can use: http://rinki.net/pekka/monkey/ But I'd like some basic beats so I could program them. Don't you guys have a page somewhere with some jazz beats? I can't believe nobody can show me any love in that department. Foget the drum machine. What are basic drum patterns for be-bop, for example?
 

azrae1l

Silver Member
i just gave you the answer dude. you know how complicated it's gonna be for a drummer to try and explain beats to a non drummer? if you really need beats go on craigslist and buy either a cheap keyboard, cheap multi effects pedal or get some play alongs.

you know your absolutely best option, find a drummer to play with.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
No such thing as 'Jazz Beats'. You need to look up how drummers actually play. If you actually were a Jazz guitarist rather than a Jazz poseur you would know this.

Like I already said, look at the front page of this website. If your brain can't figure out what that is, it's:

www.drummerworld.com

Then look at the 'Clinic' section.

There. I did all the ground work for you.
 

jster

Junior Member
No such thing as 'Jazz Beats'. You need to look up how drummers actually play. If you actually were a Jazz guitarist rather than a Jazz poseur you would know this.
I ain't posing. I came on and asked for some basic basic stuff. That only makes me a poseur for someone like you who is so insecure that he is in continual need of finding somebody to put down. Nowhere in the thread did I claim to be any good at anything. All I did was specify the genre that I play and then you come along and start telling me that I said I was "legitimate" and that I am a "poseur". But I never said that I was "legitimate" did I? No I didn't. You want to call names and put people down? Game on monkey. Keep it up. Why are you so insecure? Still living at home with mom? No gigs? Busto? Tough to get girls when you are a busto "drummer" living at home with mom and dad. Do they even let you practice at home? Seems like you have an awful lot of time on your hands that you keep stalking a guy asking for a few links to basics. Yeah, keep running that slobbery mouth of yours.
 
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mediocrefunkybeat

Guest
Wow. That's some pretty impressive verbal diarrhoea. Nice work there my friend. I'm glad that you at least read what I wrote. Interesting too that I'm writing this from my other half's flat - I can assure you that there is no issue with the ladies.

You clearly are a Jazz poseur. You're getting basic terminology wrong. Have you met any Jazz drummers? I would assume that since you're a 'Jazz Guitarist' that you would have listened to at least a few records in your life? If you have then you'll doubtless be aware that there is no such thing as a 'Jazz Beat' as you so succinctly put it. There are basics upon which patterns are founded but if you had one iota of even basic rhythmic Jazz knowledge (and I openly admit that I'm no great expert) you would not be asking for 'Jazz Beats'. What you would be asking for is the fundamental pattern upon which the majority of Jazz music is based - which has been identified in this thread already.

Now may I suggest that you arm yourself with a few basics. I will even point out specific recordings for you. If you still keep coming back asking for 'Jazz Beats' then I'm afraid that you haven't listened to any of them.

i) 'Reaching Forth' by McCoy Tyner (Roy Haynes on the kit)
ii) 'Love for Sale' by Dexter Gordon (Alex Riel on the kit)
iii) 'Art Pepper and Eleven' by Art Pepper (Mel Lewis on the kit)
iv) 'Kind of Blue' by Miles Davis (Jimmy Cobb on the kit)
iv) 'A Night at the Village Vanguard' by Sonny Rollins (Pete LaRoca/Elvin Jones on the kit)

Now. Those are just five albums I picked from my iTunes collection. They give a fair indication of what you might expect to hear if you had actually listened to a few records. You'll notice that all the drum parts sound quite different from each other but are based on similar fundamentals. The divergence becomes even greater the later on into the Post-Bop era you get - with something like Coltrane's 'Interstellar Space' becoming much more free-form.

So what you're asking is fundamentally a flawed question clearly based upon a false premise that is easily remedied by actually having a basic knowledge of what you claim to be able to play. Hence poseur. An understanding of the fundamentals is much more valuable than asking for 'Jazz Beats'.
 

Arky

Platinum Member
jster,
I'm sorry for those 'welcome posts' you received from a couple members, haha.

As to those drum notations:
The "X" in the top line is the (closed) hihat. An open hihat is notated as an "O" instead of an "X".

The snare sits in the "c" note position, the bass drum is on the bottom line.

Anything written on or above the top line is cymbal stuff. The only cymbal appearing on the bottom line is an "X" marking a hihat when operated with the foot.

Many drum notations do come with a legend.
 
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