Looking for a smoother china cymbal

Cooper2020

Cooper2020

Member
Hi. I currently have a Zildjian 18 inches Swish and I was wondering if there are other china type of cymbal that could produce a smoother sound than what I currently have.

I read that usually Swish cymbals do produce what I am looking for because they are thinner. Am I already geared OK and being too picky, or is there better alternative for a quieter/smoother sound with less sustain, with that distinctive china sound?

Thanks
 
I think if you want “smooth” you need “bigger”. Try a 22” thin swish, or even Paiste’s 24” 2002 swish - you get this nice tone that isn’t clangy and even makes a great ride.

For the record that wonderful swish you hear on Billy Cobhams’ Spectrum album was actually a 26” monster! I’d love to play one of those!
 
Last edited:
I have bought and sold a LOT of chinas, swishes, and pangs, looking for the smooth sound I’ve heard on records. The winner and keeper for me is a 20” Ufip Bravo china from the 70s, in a medium weight. I have a 22” Agop swish with three rivets that is a killer too. You can also have good luck trying out a few different 20-22” Wuhans. And I’m a big fan of the Paiste Masters 22” swish. A 20” pang (the flange lays flat on a table, it doesn’t wing upward like a china) will have a reliably smoother sound, but for my taste the tone was never quite the white-noise TAHHH that I wanted to hear.

In short: I recommend 20-22”. Medium weight or thin, but not too thin. A few rivets are good, but the old school swishes often had 12-20 rivets, which worked in a big band mix but IMO sounds terrible up close in person. And even though the expensive Paiste Masters is the bomb, you can get just as good of a sound from a cheap Wuhan if you can try a few of them out.
 
Last edited:
Cymbal & Gong makes great Chinas. They have the real sound, without being obnoxious. There are two different designs, the "wide" China with a normal bell, and the Second Line China with a small hard cornered bell-- the Second Line has a little rougher sound.

They're basically in the paper thin category-- my 20" is ~1450g-- but they act more like a thin crash. The thing I've hated about every China I've owned or played is that they will either sound very obnoxious, or you have to wail on them to get the sound, so they're out of balance with the rest of the set. These blend more like normal cymbals, and work great in a full range of dynamics.

Here are some videos of ones I've sold-- most of them here are smaller, 14-16". There is a 20" SL in one of the videos that I think is available. The 20" called "Ferdinand" is mine.
 
Bo has already made great suggestions in post #2.
Listening to the sound samples of Swish cymbals, I found that I do not like the loud, harsh sound of some of the Swish or China cymbals.
The Paiste 2002, 24 inch Swish cymbal or Paiste 22 inch Masters Swish Cymbal are the only ones that I liked, and from the sound samples the sound is smoother and tamer compared to other Swish cymbals. No Rivets.


 
Last edited:
toddbishop said:
Cymbal & Gong makes great Chinas. They have the real sound, without being obnoxious. There are two different designs, the "wide" China with a normal bell, and the Second Line China with a small hard cornered bell-- the Second Line has a little rougher sound.

They're basically in the paper thin category-- my 20" is ~1450g-- but they act more like a thin crash. The thing I've hated about every China I've owned or played is that they will either sound very obnoxious, or you have to wail on them to get the sound, so they're out of balance with the rest of the set. These blend more like normal cymbals, and work great in a full range of dynamics.

Here are some videos of ones I've sold-- most of them here are smaller, 14-16". There is a 20" SL in one of the videos that I think is available. The 20" called "Ferdinand" is mine.
Click to expand...
Those two 14 inches sounds awsome. Smooth and punchy at the same time, and does not seem to have a long sustain from the videos.

Where do I find those in Quebec, Canada?

Are you running the Web store Cymbalistic, and do you ship in Canada?
 
Mancho1991 said:
Those two 14 inches sounds awsome. Smooth and punchy at the same time, and does not seem to have a long sustain from the videos.

Where do I find those in Quebec, Canada?

Are you running the Web store Cymbalistic, and do you ship in Canada?
Click to expand...

Thanks! I've had a 14" in set up at home all week, it's a lot of fun. Quick response, opens up without having to use a lot of force, and short sustain-- like I say, they've avoided all the things that usually annoy me with Chinas.

I'll ask Tim @ Cymbal & Gong if anyone in Quebec is carrying them right now-- I don't believe so.

Cymbalistic is my site, yes, and I do ship worldwide-- I have one 14" in stock (named "Chi" here), but I can go to C&G and look at the 16s, or get some better video of the 20, if that's what you want. Shoot me a private message if you have more questions, or if you want to go for it!
 
I have an 18" Meinl China and a 22" Bosphorus Jazz Master China, predrilled with 2 holes for rivets. For me, the 22" is preferable for riding and overall tone/sound.
 
bongoman said:
Say @toddbishop do you know if C&G has ever made a china in the Midnight Lamp format?
Click to expand...

I don't think so! He can definitely special order one for you-- he'll probably be interested! He'll usually order two or three of whatever custom thing somebody wants, and lets them take their pick.

I'm sure it would sound great, I just don't know how it would behave-- Midnight Lamp are Turk on top/lathed on the bottom, for everyone else here. Hopefully it would be just a mellower China-- usually ML are quite thin, and softer sounding. But the half Turk thing might make it not open up so much?
 
So by "smoother", do you mean less harsh of a stick attack? Almost like you are hitting the china with a timpani mallet instead of a stick (not that extreme of course)?

If that's what you mean, try a (now discontinued) Zildjian Pang. Those had a very soft and mellow stick attack, much different sounding than a Swish. Also, see if you can find a Sabian XS20 China (the precursor to the XSR Series). Those chinas only came in 18", but they had a very unique sound, and a very smooth and mellow stick attack.

As a tip, another way to get a slightly mellower and smoother stick attack from your existing china (or any china for that matter) is to play it right side up (curved edge is up). It sounds a little warmer, smoother and "rounded out" that way, at least to my ears.
 
To my ear the Wuhan (and similar) Chinas have a softer attack and shorter sustain than most other Chinas. It's not the sound I'm looking for, but it might be exactly what you need.

That said, as a class of cymbals I'm not sure "smooth" is really a part of their reason for existence.

I have two older Swish cymbals, a 20" and a 22", and neither are particularly thin, especially the 22. I also have a 20" China Boy Low that is a bit smoother and has a shorter sustain than either of the Swish cymbals I have.

As a general suggestion I'd agree that a larger, 20"+ size is the way to go, since smaller Chinas tend to have more bite. It's also my experience that Chinas with the flat top bell tend to have less sustain than Chinas with the rounded Turkish-type bell.
 
I could never find a china that was quite smooth enough. I got a K special dry trash crash and a K EFX to try. I really like both of them in lieu of a china. They are much easier on my ears but still get attention. I still have a 14” swish and a 20” swish, that will make you grit your teeth, but the EFX type cymbals seem to fit the music I’m playing generally.
 
bmankin said:
I could never find a china that was quite smooth enough. I got a K special dry trash crash and a K EFX to try. I really like both of them in lieu of a china. They are much easier on my ears but still get attention. I still have a 14” swish and a 20” swish, that will make you grit your teeth, but the EFX type cymbals seem to fit the music I’m playing generally.
Click to expand...
What kind of music do you play?
 
Smooth China is 20" Swish. Right side Up. Either an old A no ink 60s 70s 20" Zildjian or a newer Bosphorus Trad 20" at 1610g's China with a ride bell is a Swish even tho In Bosphorus case is still called China.

China traditionally had a squared cup to be hand held and played in pairs.

Swish has a 'western' ride 'bell'..
Now. Either are smooth- the Bosphorus Trad 20 at 1610g especially is unless and until ..you start kicking the edges up and around then -with either it's a three-alarm controlled apartment fire
 
Mancho1991 said:
What kind of music do you play?
Click to expand...
Right now I’m playing older rock and a mixture of country. Not really what I cut my teeth on but I try to be a versatile as possible. I have drifted towards cymbals that are are a little less harsh than I used to. My crash cymbals are K sweet crashes, K fast crashes, etc. lower volume that I can balance with a little mic. I’m a little worried about my hearing so I don’t go for heavy cymbals these days.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top