Letting the PA do the work

Jeremy Bender

Platinum Member
I've been watching a fair amount of Rolling Stones on YT lately and one thing I've noticed is how Charlie Watts with his trad. size kit used a snare made of wood to play from large to gigantic audiences in arena's or stadiums.
There was no need for any titanium or concrete shell snare drum to be used or any arm motion slamming like a lumberjack. Just a traditional grip snap backbeat.

Shouldn't we all be letting electricity do any hard work for us?
 
Last edited:
There's something theatrical about seeing a hard hitting drummer but I agree completely. It's just not needed when you're aided by PA systems. Rimshot backbeats are appropriate for rock but you don't need to be on 10 all the time--starting in the middle gives you room to up the intensity.
 
that comes from not having a PA...
from not being mic'ed.
should never rely on a PA
Drums First
it's you and the drums
beyond that
is someone else's job
some producer's job

well that was fun 😁
the first time a bass player told me to carry two cords and these two mics is when I quit - was on my way out of R&R bands.
 
Last edited:
Jim Keltner once brought Charlie to my house in L.A. and he sat down and played my drums. He had such a light touch and sound. We were all having fun and I asked Charlie "Don't you have to play harder with The Stones?" He looked at me and smiled, with his boyish grin and said in his proper British accent.... "I just tell them to turn it up"....we all had a big laugh then they both proceeded to eat every piece of chocolate in my house. True Story..... :) (y):cool:
 
I've learned to relax behind the kit over the last several years. I still get 'power' from the way I hit the snare, toms, and my specific kick beater, but I'm not hitting nearly as hard.

No real reason, I guess I just got tired of being tired in the middle of the show. The benefits are, I'm not tired after a show, I'm not sweating, my sticks and heads last longer, and it's been a long time since I cracked a cymbal.

I'm perfectly fine with FOH making me sound 'big'.
 
I also do not hit hard. I let the PA do the work for me. I do carry heavier sticks for the odd time I have to hit hard because only the bass drum has a microphone, but that is rare.
 
Someday I might finally relax and stop hitting so hard, the whole kit is mic'd... Re-training myself is difficult.

My arms would greatly benefit from not hitting as hard. I'm struggling with them terribly.

Bad habits. Bad technique.

Bad drummer...or at least not as good as I could be.
 
The same is true for me in golf and drums. In golf, I swung as hard as in could on the first nine, and played horribly. I was too tired to do it on the back nine. I played much better. I let the club do the work. I'm much smoother on the kit when I am conscious of the dynamics.
 
I try to hit hard enough to get a full signal for the sound tech to work with.. and also to get a good feel on the drums so you have lots of headroom if you need to punch up the volume. I don’t like drumming that is to quiet or mushy.. it needs to balance the stage volume too so everyone can hear you.. it’s finding the goldilocks zone where it’s all perfect..
Great story about Charlie.. I’ve often noticed he hits about as hard as playing in a small jazz club.. so it shows that moderate level of hitting still projects across an arena in the hands of a good sound tech.
The drummers that wail on their drums with hands over their head using Moeller on steroids.. I admire the show but its exhausting to watch.
 
I was trained in sound engineering that the microphones are just amplifying the vibrations they pick up...there job is not to create a sound, but to transfer it. Obviously the amps alter the sound, as well as effects, but if the sound going into the mic is pure, there doesn't need to be a lot of "magic" on the other end

on the other side, you can hit a drum/cymbal so hard that it out plays the shell/distorts the metal, and actually makes the instrument play quieter than normal

having learned all of this, and played in metal/punk bands all my life, I feel like I do not hit that hard versus my colleagues b/c of that knowledge. Even when the string jockeys have the stacks at 11, I don't feel like hitting harder helps. I usually only have the less educated sound guys telling me to "hit harder dude"....the more educated ones will get the amps on stage turned down to accomodate the overall sound

the "hit harder dude" thing is the MOST annoying in the studio....
 
We did an outdoor gig at a large winery in south Jersey a few weeks ago. The sound guys were substitutes that the regular guy sent to fill in, and they were knuckleheads. They didn't even have drum mics for me. I had to go get mine and rush to set everything up. I had to ask for a monitor! We never did a sound check, and so, I beat my brains out the whole first set, unsure as to whether I had any mics working. We're playing there again Saturday starting in the morning, and I'll have more time to set up, and the regular soundman is going to be there.
 
I hit hard enough to make it fun and from there let the PA do the work. In smaller venues I play lighter sticks so I can still hit about regularly with relatively little sound coming from the stage (acoustic kit) and again let the PA do the work.
 
Anything at a big venue definitely let the PA handle it, that's what they're designed to do. I find kick and snare are the main things that need a bit of presence in the PA when we use our own PA. I'm not a hard hitter and only really change things if I have to really bring the kit down in volume but nowadays if I know the venue I'll just bring an electric kit. It's way more physical effort to play and electric kit for a gig than the real thing but in quiet situations it's just as important to let the PA handle everything especially in these horrible silent stage situations.
 
I hit hard enough to make it fun and from there let the PA do the work. In smaller venues I play lighter sticks so I can still hit about regularly with relatively little sound coming from the stage (acoustic kit) and again let the PA do the work.
A word of caution... I'm convinced that a lot of my arm problems is due to switching from 5s to 7s...and then gripping too tightly and hitting too hard.

This is all anecdotal. I've been trying to sort it out for close to two years now.

And it's very possible that you're smarter than me (we could just say its very likely, lol) and you won't do the bad stuff I did.

Just something to be aware of...
 
Anything at a big venue definitely let the PA handle it, that's what they're designed to do. I find kick and snare are the main things that need a bit of presence in the PA when we use our own PA. I'm not a hard hitter and only really change things if I have to really bring the kit down in volume but nowadays if I know the venue I'll just bring an electric kit. It's way more physical effort to play and electric kit for a gig than the real thing but in quiet situations it's just as important to let the PA handle everything especially in these horrible silent stage situations.

I also feel like you have to be aware of overuse of PA's, especially at small venues....we play a little microbrewery that is all cement and garage doors/glass here in town every Christmas, and the first time, the sound guy came at me with a crap ton of mics....
I (respectfully) said "whoa...whoa....lets just do the kick for a little presence. "
It sort of caught him off guard. He said back: " gladly...I am so used to drummers wanting every thing mic'd up in here"
I was like:" really? In this place? It only seats like 35 people...it's not Wembley...."
 
When I am miced in a PA system, I play as I always do, and let the PA do the rest. Peace and goodwill.
 
I also feel like you have to be aware of overuse of PA's, especially at small venues....we play a little microbrewery that is all cement and garage doors
Lol I played a similar microbrewery.. although it was a big room.. same acoustics. The first thing the soundguy said to us was "Do you guys like a loud stage mix?' I replied '$@#! NO!!!
He ended up giving it to us anyway.. gradually cranking up the levels all night until it was deafening at the end. This is why we prefer to use our own go-to guy for sound.. but some clubs use their own and then the dice rolls.!
 
Lol I played a similar microbrewery.. although it was a big room.. same acoustics. The first thing the soundguy said to us was "Do you guys like a loud stage mix?' I replied '$@#! NO!!!
He ended up giving it to us anyway.. gradually cranking up the levels all night until it was deafening at the end. This is why we prefer to use our own go-to guy for sound.. but some clubs use their own and then the dice rolls.!

yeah...in most of our gigs, our bass player runs sound with his one PA that is just the right size for us. I think the sound guy at that place is the brother of the owner....which explains his presence there....cause he does not really know what he is doing sound-wise. But he is a super nice guy, so I am not trying to throw shade at him
 
I've been watching a fair amount of Rolling Stones on YT lately and one thing I've noticed is how Charlie Watts with his trad. size kit used a snare made of wood to play from large to gigantic audiences in arena's or stadiums.
There was no need for any titanium or concrete shell snare drum to be used or any arm motion slamming like a lumberjack. Just a traditional grip snap backbeat.

Shouldn't we all be letting electricity do any hard work for us?

We should play the gear we love and let the mics do the work.

Along those same lines, we need the right tools for the job. As previously mentioned, a whole bunch of us aren’t miked for many of the jobs we do, so we have to use gear for the specific job.

Being miked up in a large venue is such a luxury. I see guys slamming away, and that’s fine; however, I often say to myself, “Wow, now there’s someone who has never played a small church before!”

It’s almost as if the bigger the venue, the less the gear matters. Where good instruments really shine is when you are up close on them in a small venue, rehearsal, or recording.
 
Back
Top