Let down by a drummer with chops but no ability

alparrott

Platinum Member
Mr Parrott wins the Internet.
Imma have to put it in the closet with all the other Internets I won over the years. Thanks.

I agree with Larry -- if at all possible, keep the sound check from the crowd. Let the first notes be notes you mean to play.
 

makinao

Silver Member
i've seen other musicians do the same. Great at rudiments and chops, lousy when with the rest of the band. I had a steady gig in a club just outside a military installation, and one day an officer came in asking if she could sing a few tunes with the band. She sang alone for the club owner for a while because the rest of band hadn't shown up. What a beautiful voice. Something in between Anita Baker and Patty Austin. She left the owner with a list of titles, and we practiced it without her when the band showed up. She came back that night with what seemed like 20 people from her unit. When she began singing, SHE WAS WAY OFF KEY with the band! Not only that, whenever the band tried to "chase" the key she was in, she modulated to another one. Her unit's faces turned to uncomfortable smiles. Another customer, a general who came alone and was ready to carve a nice big juicy steak, was so distraught that he sadly face palmed both hands, stood up, paid his bill and tipped the waiter, and left. It was one of the weirdest gigs I've ever played.
 

philrudd

Senior Member
Playing with a band requires a certain empathy, and it's either god-given or practiced.
You think this is true? I've always been unsure...I hope that it is. I've never been a 'chops master' and my technique has never really been much more than passable, but one thing that I've always felt I did was integrate well with a band, even when I was just starting. This would support your theory.

It's worked out pretty well for me - once I've jammed with someone I'm almost always asked back.

One guy in New Orleans called me the 'good fuck drummer'. I looked at him confusedly. He said, 'Once these bands get a piece of you they always come back for more.'

It was one of the strangest compliments I've ever received...but probably one of the best as well.
 

DrumDoug

Senior Member
I have a friend who give a couple lessons to the son of a coworker. The kid wanted to play double bass. The kid started running really fast on the pedals out of time. My friend tried to explain subdivisions and 16th notes and had the kid slow down and try to play 16ths over his kick and snare. The kid argued about how he could already play slow. He wouldn't believe my friend when he told him the the players he was listening to were not just playing random fast notes. They were subdividing evenly. The kid only took two lessons because he didn't think my friend knew what he was talking about.

I think the kid started off listening to fast metal but didn't have the ears yet to recognize the subdivisions. He just heard fast bass drums and thought that was all there was to it. IMHO I think drum tab has contributed to this. Drum tab by itself has no musical context. It's just a string of Xs. You can learn the coordination but you don't learn how it fits together with the music. Kids today have all these resources to learn all kinds of licks and chops, but if they're not careful they can bypass the musical context in which to apply it.
 

uhtrinity

Senior Member
This thread makes me feel better.

I always feel self conscious during sound check.

Me: thump thump thump thump ....

The other guy: thump ratta tat tat thump thump, razzle dazzle ....

You get the point. I've witnessed quite a few drummer who fit the descriptions in the thread, really flashy solos, but not so good with the band.

I also agree, I need a band to show you what I can do, and that won't be flashy either :)
 

Jeff Almeyda

Senior Consultant
I definitely see this all the time at metal gigs. Guys who can play 240 BPM but hit the snare in a pathetic weak-wristed motion that sounds terrible and has zero groove. .

But what I also see is more young players than ever who
DO get it and who groove and solo like mad.

Don't kid yourselves, there are more good players out there than ever before.

More bad ones too...
 

pgm554

Platinum Member
Playing with a band is a different skill set than developing chops. You wonder why some amazing technicians are still playing in their basement. Then you see something like this, and you understand.
Saw a vid of a guy that won a rudimental quint tenor contest at DCI .
Dynamite chops.

Then he had a video of him playing with a band on a set.

Oh my, did he suck!
 

wildbill

Platinum Member

Ha ha - yep.

Still get a chuckle out of it starting at 2:20 or so.

But ya - two different skill sets.
Sort of like the mad professor physics genius who is totally lacking in social skills,
and can't hold a conversation about more mundane issues without internally drifting off.
 

Anon La Ply

Renegade
Growing up and finding out that you'll never get to use those cool licks you heard on records in your teens is like finding out that Santa isn't real. It's a blow.

Boom bap boom bap. The cash registers at the bar ring. You get to gig another day. Yay.
 

bud7h4

Silver Member
I just used that as an example, Joey jordison from Slipknot. fast double bass player.

It's a shame that's what he's best known for. His fast double bass is actually quite sloppy (because he often playes just beyond his actual limit).

The rest of his drumming is creative, memorable, and great for the song. I do like when and where he applies speedy double bass in a song, he just doesn't execute it as well as he does everything else.
 

SgtThump

Platinum Member
This thread makes me feel better.

I always feel self conscious during sound check.

Me: thump thump thump thump ....

The other guy: thump ratta tat tat thump thump, razzle dazzle ....

You get the point. I've witnessed quite a few drummer who fit the descriptions in the thread, really flashy solos, but not so good with the band.

I also agree, I need a band to show you what I can do, and that won't be flashy either :)
Same here all around. LOL
 

TMe

Senior Member
This thread makes me feel better.

I always feel self conscious during sound check.

Me: thump thump thump thump ....
Talk to the person doing sound. That's what they want to hear. They can't set the levels when some guy's wailing on his kit.

I just rewatched the Jim Chapin video where he concludes by saying that many great drummers can't do the stuff he showed. In fact, many great drummers don't play the drums very well, but they play music well.

But... we shouldn't be mean. How good were any of us at our first gigs? We probably sucked AND had no chops. Hmmm... I think I'm still there.
 

John Lamb

Senior Member
yeah - some people are born knowing it, others take a really long time to figure it out. Took me longer than I'd like to admit :eek: ... science can actually measure it now, believe it or not.



You think this is true? I've always been unsure...I hope that it is. I've never been a 'chops master' and my technique has never really been much more than passable, but one thing that I've always felt I did was integrate well with a band, even when I was just starting. This would support your theory.

It's worked out pretty well for me - once I've jammed with someone I'm almost always asked back.

One guy in New Orleans called me the 'good fuck drummer'. I looked at him confusedly. He said, 'Once these bands get a piece of you they always come back for more.'

It was one of the strangest compliments I've ever received...but probably one of the best as well.
 

GetAgrippa

Platinum Member
I agre LarryAce I use to play with an orchestra and drums aren't suppose to stand out or drown out the other instruments (easy to drown out strings), then at times you are tacit playing nothing too (rarely a solo and few fills too). Playing with rock bands I always felt the drums central but playing with an orchestra gave me a whole new perspective of fitting in not standing out. It was a good thing the solos and fills were rare cause I suck at both. I've been working on both-but now I find myself trying to stick in fills everywhere for the sake of playing a fill and I realize again-my fills should be rare again.
 

larryace

"Uncle Larry"
Yea it's very touchy. Playing so I am audibly under the general volume level to me sounds friggin great. As soon as I equal or slightly go over the general volume level, the wheels come off and my parts don't work right. Really strange phenomenon.
 

MCM

Senior Member
Sounds like a lot of musicians. Worried about chops and how many pieces, but can't play a lick
 
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